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Post by luminara on Oct 28, 2014 12:44:54 GMT
Hi, I like your mod very much but Wilbert is someone I really like to kill after some problems with him. Not sure what went wrong, but the first problem appeared in the flute/lute quest. He suddenly was missing. The questmarker showed him in the wilderness near Rifton. That was weird but I got to him, and finished my quests there. When he sent me away to geht a book from Solitude so he could train Vilja, he did it in the wilderness. As far as I remember there wasn't a marker that time but I remembered the location and finished the quest. So far, so good. When Vilja was kidnapped and I should meet Wilbert at Dawnstar, he was still standing in the wilderness what was a bit odd, but he pointed me to the right direction. Then he reappeared at Solitude and the problems got worse. I had to search for the chantbooks and found them out of order and it really took some time, which shouldn't be a problem. But then the problem was, that Wilbert was no longer in the Bard College itself. He was next to the burned figure at the court. He took the books...and nothing. The quest did not end and I got no book for Vilja. There were two options for quests from him, but every time he said he would only talk to me over that in the college where he wasn't going to go. I read some posts about bugs and discovered Baeta. I activated her, talked to her and told her the Quest was already finished. The quest ended, I met Viljas mother, took Tendra with me and headed back to Solitude. He was now in the college and was very eager to give me quests which I did happy because I finally could perform with Vilja and look for insturments/chants. But after I performed at Dawnstar and got back to Solitude College, he was suddenly missing. One questmarker showed the way into the college and when I was in, it showed me out... No Wilbert anywhere. So i went back to Baeta because she had already helped me before. I told her I finished the quest with the bard performances but somehow it did not play out. This time the quest did not finish and I somehow could not restart it too. When I was looking for wilbert now, he was sitting happy in the Inn of Dawnstar as nothing has ever happened and I can't finish my quest because he always tell me he is not in the college. I encountered some other bugs but I found a way to navigate around. I was a victim of the Hug-Kill-Bug what somehow fixed itsself and performing with Vilja seems to replace the option to perform alone from the "Become a Bard" mod. I was going to arrange with that because with Vilja, I don't have to perform alone. I hope you can help me with my Wilbertproblem and I again wanted to thank you for your great mod. I wouldn't want to miss Vilja in this game.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 28, 2014 13:17:02 GMT
Oh joy. Here we go again. (I'm becoming an expert on this bug! I want sympathy!) In a nutshell, the Eldergleam Sanctuary, or the exit from it, causes this and about 457,000 other similar bugs. When you left there to go Wilbert hunting, the quest line became corrupted.
The only real solution is to load a saved game from before you left the sanctuary to find him. Your alternative is to restart Vilja. Now, please tell us you have been diligent in making saves of your game at various stages.
When that bug happened to me my earliest saved game was smacking Halvdan around in Riften. Before that I had progressed as far as you have and ultimately had to completely restart Vilja as all sorts of other bugs started popping up.
So I am going to assume you have a saved game and will progress to leaving the sanctuary to find Wilbert. The moment you exit the sanctuary, check your journal for the quest marker showing a correct location and not a wilderness spot. Fast travel immediately to Wilbert and get the proper quest update. Make a new save at that point. Then continue on with the quest line. Refer to your journal frequently to make sure the quest pointer is correct and making sense and not sending you on an outing to Jupiter. If at all possible, with each quest update make a new save and do the subsequent quest PROMPTLY!
When I had this screw up I just ignored everything and did the entire Dawnguard questline. Then with the Great Moaning Cow, Serana, in tow, I went off to try and find Wilbert. About 3 RL weeks of game play shot in the bottom.
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Post by Dova on Oct 28, 2014 15:50:36 GMT
hmm, maybe, but I was thinking more of a mod conflict for Wilbert to disappear to other places. Can you please post your mod list?
See if this help with Wilbert: 1 - punch him 2 - go to Bard College, then enter into console:
prid XX056A5C (replace XX with first 2 digits of Vilja's FormID) moveto player 3 - Cast Vilja's reset spell on Wilbert
As for the hug-kill bug, although it appears fixed, your game may still suffering mild symptoms, please follow the FAQ (link in my mini profile) to cure it completely.
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Post by luminara on Oct 28, 2014 20:05:28 GMT
Well, after I ended the Chantbookquest with Baeta, Wilbert was in the College and I could go on. I found a save around that time and so I only lost some playhours. He still tries to leave the college sometimes and I save every update of the quest so that he doesn't wander off again. Now I am so far, that I have performed at every inn, market, jarl. And the quest now says something like: wait for further updates. That's perhaps because I haven't been at solstheim at all so far and I have the Vilja-Solstheim-Addon already installed.
I tried to do the quests where I have to find the flute in an animal cave. But I now have the problem that nowhere in the cave is a flute to be found. Perhaps because I have already been there. I told Wilbert both times that the location is wrong and I got a new one. Perhaps the next time it works. XD
As for the fact Wilbert appeared at Dawnstar after my talk with Baeta. I think that was my fault because I went through the other quests too. Perhaps I ended with a quest where he is supposed to be there...
The problem with the option of "Become a Bard" dissappearing seems to be at itsself. I encountered the same problem with "Realistic Needs and Diseases." The performoption of the Become a Bard mod simply dissappears.
Thank you for the quick reply. But sadly I can't enter the links you have in the mini profile. They say I have "no permission to access this post." But I got there anyway.
Edit: I found the flute and the reason why I did not find it. I use the Mod: Hunting in Skyrim - A Hunter Guild which changes the lootsystem of animals. After I understood that the flute was inside the animal, I fixed it easyly by turning the lootsystem back into normal what is an ingame option at this mod.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 29, 2014 0:52:47 GMT
Dova's suggestion of smacking Wilbert around may not help but it relieves frustrations. I've put quite a few arrows in him.
Dova, I hope the Emma team is making note of those two mods causing problems. Probably should get rid of finding something inside an animal as several mods tweak critters about. The Needs and Diseases seems more and more like bugs waiting to happen.
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Post by Dova on Oct 29, 2014 1:11:03 GMT
Oops, I meant the link on the left, not the link to the draft version in my tiny signature. That one should work.
It shouldn't matter when and which quests you are finishing during different stages of the game, Emma had took great care that they should work out most of the time. The only one I know of that can be problematic is to finish the donkey tail quest in the middle of the wedding.
I used earlier versions of RND and had not experienced any problems with Vilja, but then again, I didn't had the dlcs to try out the latest RND version (too bad that it is now abandoned). I will make a note and ask someone about this and Become a Bard. Also noted about the hunter guild mod.
Let us know if you have more questions.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 29, 2014 2:24:03 GMT
That is a game engine problematic weirdness. The quest pointer indicates a location but the actual quest item doesn't get spawned until the PC enters that location. So even being very careful and making lots of save games, it's darned easy to end up with a Magda/Flute/Giant Balloon missing. Then you have to figure out how far back in the save games you need to go to fix the origin problem.
I strongly dislike this as it turns the PC into a quest hunter, dashing about from quest to quest and unable to enjoy the immersive Skyrim. The only solution I have found is make a special 'signature' save, (I use the same console save testsave), check and see that the item is where it is supposed to be then revert to the save and continue on with our normal gameplay mode. Yucky but the only safe and sensible solution, especially so because we normally never fast travel.
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Post by Dova on Oct 29, 2014 2:37:22 GMT
That is a game engine problematic weirdness. The quest pointer indicates a location but the actual quest item doesn't get spawned until the PC enters that location. That's not always the case; it depends on how the quest is set up.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 29, 2014 4:28:55 GMT
That is a game engine problematic weirdness. The quest pointer indicates a location but the actual quest item doesn't get spawned until the PC enters that location. That's not always the case; it depends on how the quest is set up. Would you be so kind as to elucidate? Please? I mean, I'm fantastic at finding bugs, or making bugs, and pretty good at finding ways around them, but I haven't a clue as to how things work!
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Post by Dova on Oct 29, 2014 23:13:52 GMT
Speaking in generality, every quest has alias, which basically tell the game what object or who plays what role in a particular quest. The quest is broken up into various stages, and for some stages, they are associated with an objective. The objective is what you see updated in the journal. The objective can choose to have a target, which would be marked with the quest pointer. So depending on what is filling the alias that acts as the objective's target, the situation can be different for each quest.
In terms of object retrieval quests, the object can either be randomly generated from the leveled list, or it could be a specific item that is added to a container, or moved from somewhere else. And depending when and how this is executed, the target item may already be at the destination since the quest is assigned or may not be until some conditions are met.
In addition, there are ways to update the quest discreetly, for example, I can have two objectives where a quest pointer points to a dungeon, then have the next objective points to a specific container after the player enters the dungeon without updating the journal, unless you are finding out the quest target with console commands, it's hard to tell that I pointed at different things purely based on the location of the pointer during gameplay.
Overall, the point is there are endless ways to setup things in the CK and script, if one is creative enough.
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