Vilja as a Multi NPC framework.

[naramoore]

Testcase 1

Stromcloak guard that I can reliably trigger first and by himself

Shows

BanditAllyFaction 000E0CD9 -2

BanditFaction 0001BCC0 -2



Test Case 2

Set CWSonsFactionNPC 1C9FD to Friendly via patch.

Still shows as CWSonsFactionNPC 1C9FD -2 using getfactionrank
on lydia
Attacks stop

[Sniffles]

So like your mod is handing you the shaft. Does the phrase 'your foot will never get well as long as the horse is standing on it' sound about right?

[amgepo]

The problem is solved then. Now, about the causes, if it has been done via script, it would be really hard to track, but if not and if it's just a faction addition matter. Openning Lydia and a stormcloak soldier, in Tes5Edit, with all the mods in your load order selected, should show the added factions and the mod adding it. But I really do think it has been done via script.

I like that horse related phrase Sniffles

[Sniffles]

I'm still trying to see the logic in setting Stormcloaks as bandits. Sort of along the lines of when squishy gave all the rabbits the AI of a dragon.

[naramoore]

The bandit factions were set to -2 which is not included. So that doesn't appear the problem.

I believe I have looked at what factions Lydia and Stormcloaks are set too in xEdit. I at least looked to see if anything had changed them. I also even tried, via patch, setting Lydia. It looks like to me that what Lydia is set too doesn't really make much difference i.e. the Lydia patch failed. Setting AAEMFollowerFollowingVilja did make a difference i.e. the patch worked.

Will take a closer look tonight for possible things I didn't see before.

As amgepo says I have two solutions now. The patch works and if I don't want the patch, I put non-housecarls on Vilja and use my vanilla slot for the housecarl. (Or what ever other NPC I find are pulled into fights.)

[Sniffles]

I think Amgepo is concerned about a script firing off and changing things which can disregard whatever your patch instructs.

[naramoore]

I am perfectly happy to dig deeper. For me this is one of the best ways of learning how things work. Some of my theories may be a little far fetched, but since I'm the one testing them there is no loss. I am going to look again for anything over writing faction code for Lydia, housecarls, and stormcloaks.

If it is a script problem, I have a lead suspect since I know it modifies civil war encampments. "Civil War Aftermath SE"

From the description:
"Q: Does it only edit the encampments or other areas in the game?
A: Only encampments."

I have tested by disabling and uninstalling this mod with no change in behavior. But that doesn't account for what might have been left in my save.

How would I look to see if there are suspect scripts in that mod? That would be new territory for me.

PS: And before being warned about removing mods, I know. I only disable/remove; do my tests; restore and go back to a save that has not had me tampering with it.

[Sniffles]

In part you are doing what we have been doing with our games. Testing scripts and their far reaching effects on the game. We have dozens of unpredictable instances of scripts fouling things up with our multiple followers. And it can't be emphasized enough -> UN PREDICTABLE. As squishy explained, a script introduces a variable. A variable can alter the function of the entire game. Even change how the game engine runs. 1+1=2 but 1+var1=37. And once you make a save with this loaded, it's a permanent part of your game.

[amgepo]

The most probable cause for the previous patch on Lydia not working is another mod editing her (probably her looks changing one) invalidating the changes.

if factions have been added to NPCs directly, simply opening all the active mods in Tes5Edit and checking the NPCs is enough to check it.

If factions have been added to NPCs via script, maybe the scripts are attached yet to those NPCs. This can be checked by selecting the NPCs in the console and typing sv. That will show the scripts and aliases attached to them. Both are important, as the aliases can contain scripts and indeed are a good way to adding them.

If new relationships between each housecarl and at least one NPC in stormcloaks camps have been added, it can only be checked by looking at each active mod in Tes5Edit, one by one, quite tedious, despite most mods not adding relationships, which makes most mod checking a matter of seconds (I have never tried Tes5Edit scripting, not sure if it can help in this area). I highly doubt this being the case, as it's inneficient and the only reason to use is to avoid touching the NPCs, which could be done via aliases.

If the changes have been made directly in the esp, Tes5Edit will show it, rendering disabling mods unneded for looking the culprit. If the change is indirect, disabling mods won't show it, unless a new game is started for each new test (could be done once just to check if it's "Civil war Aftermath").

[naramoore]

I think I have it figured out.
I think this has to do with getting game flags messed up by transferring control of NPCs while in the encampment.
I went back to a save prior to installing Civil War Aftermath. And by transferring Lydia's follower controls while in the encampment could produce a variety of "unfortunate" states.

Example 1:
Step 1: Take Lydia into Stormcloak camp under my control.
Step 2: Release her from control while in camp. This turns guard hostile
Step 3. Put under Vilja's control. Guard stays hostile and we slaughter the Stormcloaks

Example 2:
1. Take Lydia into the encampment under both my and Vilja's control.
2. Release Lydia from my control.
Guard takes hostile stance but does not attack.

In my original game I was moving NPC follower controls around. Who knows what I exactly did when. I do know at one point I had forgotten to release Lydia from my control before assigning her to Vilja. I later released her from my control, purhaps while in the Stormcloak encampment.

Anyway, If I am right, I am setting up very rare situations and may also be hitting timing window issues. In the process I am probably getting odd faction states baked into my save.

Unless someone sees a good reason to follow up on this one any further, I am happy just to use my patch and storm Solitude.

Burn all Imperials!!!!!

SPOILER: Click to show

Pictures of Burning an Imperial Camp using Civil War Aftermath

[amgepo]

If you had the patch checked up while testing, what you describe is normal. In the example 1, Lydia stops being playerteammate and faction hostilities take place, while in the example 2, when that happens, Lydia is friend to stormcloks thanks to the patch and thus the hostilities didn't take place. Of course, having used a save previous to civil War aftermath having been installed (with that mod unchecked, I assume), means that mod has nothing to do with the problem.

But regardless of the cause, using the patch will avoid any problems. The only thing to keep in mind is that if you have the same problem with imperials in a legion playthrough, you could use a variant of the patch making AAEMFollowerFollowingVilja faction friends with CWImperialFactionNPC faction (you could have both created with the one you needed checked in your load order).

[naramoore]

I was careful. The patch was unchecked during testing. And we can safely say that Civil War Aftermath is not the culprit.

I doubt I will do a Imperial run through. I think once with the civil war is enough. It not actually very interesting.

[amgepo]

In that case, I guess there's no harm in having the current patch permanently active (could be that a housecarl could take sides in a combat between both factions you are not involved in, but even then, most probably won't do it against city guards).