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Post by jgf on Sept 5, 2017 2:08:17 GMT
I know what the patch does, I know how it does it; what I do not know is how to create one simply. All the tutorials I find are either overly technical (if I understood them on first reading I wouldn't need them) or contradictory (one says check certain options, another says leave those unchecked). Even those which start with basic instructions quickly meander into long turgid dissertations apparently intent on covering every possible issue with any mods and options, burying you with "unless" and "if" comments. For example, "This page is intended for the users who are new to the Wrye Bash program and the concept of compiling a bashed patch." Now read the page (http://modsreloaded.com/wrye-bash-bashed-patch-t3455.html). Another I've read, wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Bashed_Patch_file_with_Marked_MergeablesBeing college educated perhaps I am too dense to comprehend all this, but after reading a half dozen such pages, I've still little idea how to create the basic patch ...and worry about incidentals when/if they appear. Does a set of simple instructions exist? I don't have many mods installed yet, around fifty, but already have some issues which I think the patch will address. BASH shows three highlighted in red, but they are working fine; two others, about which BASH says nothing, either do not work at all or partially function; another mod which merely changes the graphics of potion bottles sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I want to get the hang of this before proceeding with more mods.
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Post by dogonporch on Sept 11, 2017 18:20:51 GMT
I prefer to combine using the CS. Guess I'm old school...
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Post by naramoore on Sept 12, 2017 2:01:13 GMT
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Post by jgf on Sept 13, 2017 18:29:28 GMT
Found some simplified text instructions and encountered the same situation as when I first ran Bash on my first version of the game. I now have to reinstall the game and all mods. And am seriously debating whether it is worth it.
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Post by naramoore on Sept 13, 2017 18:48:22 GMT
I always review the results manually in xedit and fix problems I see. It helped in my case adding the Delev (sp) tag to Better Harvesting.
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Post by jgf on Sept 13, 2017 20:41:06 GMT
Not familiar with xedit, and wouldn't know what to look for anyway; it's a bit more obtuse than working with Morrowind and Mash. This will be three times in two years I've had to reinstall this wretched mess ...unless I decide to just return to my original version - with no OBSE, no Bash, and no headaches.
This would not be so egregious if there were a "restore" option for Bash to undo whatever changes it made. This is the very reason I never use mod managers or auto-installers.
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Post by dogonporch on Sept 14, 2017 0:03:53 GMT
Keep in mind that few mods are actually meant to be combined with other mods...but are anyways. You can skip Bash... The obvious ones to combine using the CS are clothes mods etc...non-quest...non-scripted. It's in the 'Tools' section... For example: I have two esps in my order...one called ItemsCombined.esp and the other ClothesCombined.esp They all get rolled into those two...then tested to make sure it works properly. Easy breezy. That alone usually frees-up enough slots for more important quest mods and such that deserve their own dedicated slots. The other big space saver...for me...has been the awesome Land Magic which gets rid of any and all of those pesky landscape patches for various mods. www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/30519/?
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Post by jgf on Sept 14, 2017 9:10:02 GMT
Well, everything I've read of Bash implies it is "smart" enough to know what it is doing. Obviously, to resort to the vernacular, that is BS.
In my case it only showed merging three small mods, everything else seemed to be just adding bits and pieces of a few other mods into the patch. When finished it asked if I wanted to enable the patch, though I clicked yes it did nothing. Otherwise it had created the patch and disabled three or four mods. I enabled the patch and tried to start the game, it hangs at the first splash screen before the loading bar even moves; Task Manager (always running on my systems) shows "not responding". I disable the patch and enable the mods it had disabled (which 'should' have put things back as they were), and try again ...same result. Evidently Bash has corrupted or removed something else but I've no idea what, so a reinstall is the simplest solution (if there's no restore option there should at least be a log of all changes made).
Number of mods in Oblivion will never be an issue for me; currently have 35-40 and read the limit is 300; unlike Morrowind, where I have about 280, of which roughly half are merges (I also went with armor.esp, weapon.esp, clothing.esp, stats.esp, misc.esp, etc.; and added most new items to existing vendors rather than having a dozen scattered new NPCs each selling a few things, or having quest mods where you find and kill one NPC to get his armor, or "you will find this item in a barrel outside Dingle Berry's house"). Due to limitations of the Oblivion CS (pre-fab buildings instead of individual components, etc.) I don't see myself involved much there, perhaps a few stats mods and removing spurious items.
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Post by dogonporch on Sept 14, 2017 13:33:30 GMT
Well, everything I've read of Bash implies it is "smart" enough to know what it is doing. Obviously, to resort to the vernacular, that is BS. In my case it only showed merging three small mods, everything else seemed to be just adding bits and pieces of a few other mods into the patch. When finished it asked if I wanted to enable the patch, though I clicked yes it did nothing. Otherwise it had created the patch and disabled three or four mods. I enabled the patch and tried to start the game, it hangs at the first splash screen before the loading bar even moves; Task Manager (always running on my systems) shows "not responding". I disable the patch and enable the mods it had disabled (which 'should' have put things back as they were), and try again ...same result. Evidently Bash has corrupted or removed something else but I've no idea what, so a reinstall is the simplest solution (if there's no restore option there should at least be a log of all changes made). Number of mods in Oblivion will never be an issue for me; currently have 35-40 and read the limit is 300; unlike Morrowind, where I have about 280, of which roughly half are merges (I also went with armor.esp, weapon.esp, clothing.esp, stats.esp, misc.esp, etc.; and added most new items to existing vendors rather than having a dozen scattered new NPCs each selling a few things, or having quest mods where you find and kill one NPC to get his armor, or "you will find this item in a barrel outside Dingle Berry's house"). Due to limitations of the Oblivion CS (pre-fab buildings instead of individual components, etc.) I don't see myself involved much there, perhaps a few stats mods and removing spurious items. 255 is the max number of mods. As for being smart, BASH cannot be used on numerous mods. Breaks them. Perhaps it won't crash the game...but the scripts are buggered or fail to run. There are many new models of houses, etc that one can add via the CS. As well, Oblivion uses tile sets for larger structures. Build your own interiors. Lots of extras of those, as well. Vendors are the best way to add many items in my opinion, as well. I hate too many freebies. I'm a big believer in the carrot and the stick re: Oblivion. If you're going to get some cool new clothes...you're either going to BUY them or DO something. But, since you say that you won't be anywhere near 255 mods...why even bother with BASH? Hobbit Hole...
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Post by jgf on Sept 14, 2017 19:11:03 GMT
"But, since you say that you won't be anywhere near 255 mods...why even bother with BASH?"
I have some mods that either aren't working or aren't fully working and was told a Bash patch would take care of this (some threads recommend creating a Bash patch even if you only have a dozen mods).
For example, a mod which makes the player essential so you pass out instead of die doesn't work at all, my lvl 15 character has been killed four times so far. Another mod makes ordinary animals non-aggressive unless attacked, seems to work on all but mudcrabs - Vilja and I are attacked by every mudcrab in sight; and Vilja occasionally goes on a rampage, attacking every creature in sight even though they aren't even noticing us ...I need a pack mule to lug around enough repair hammers to keep up with her. A mod which merely changes mesh and textures for potion bottles sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, sometimes only works on some bottles; similarly a mod which increases ("balances") bow/arrow damage seems to function intermittently. All these mods work fine in my other install (slightly fewer mods, no OBSE, no DLC, no Bash.)
As for the CS, I've found numerous custom houses, but again they are pre-fab units; most are quite nice, but that's not what i want. The only actual construction components I've found are for dungeons, I did d/l a couple of these. I miss what Morrowind gave us - individual interior walls, exterior walls, floors, ceilings, columns, beams, stairs, hallways, roof sections, chimneys, etc., so we could build what we wanted. To be analogous, Morrowind is a traditional electric train set with a box full of track; Oblivion is one of those pre-made sets with a layout on a board with scenery, and you just place the train on the track and run it. (I have read the Morrowind components can be converted to Oblivion but: 1- this must be done one piece at a time; 2- the meshes and textures are comparatively lo-res and do not look very nice in Oblivion; and 3- Bethesda says this is illegal.)
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Post by dogonporch on Sept 14, 2017 20:57:00 GMT
"But, since you say that you won't be anywhere near 255 mods...why even bother with BASH?" I have some mods that either aren't working or aren't fully working and was told a Bash patch would take care of this (some threads recommend creating a Bash patch even if you only have a dozen mods). For example, a mod which makes the player essential so you pass out instead of die doesn't work at all, my lvl 15 character has been killed four times so far. Another mod makes ordinary animals non-aggressive unless attacked, seems to work on all but mudcrabs - Vilja and I are attacked by every mudcrab in sight; and Vilja occasionally goes on a rampage, attacking every creature in sight even though they aren't even noticing us ...I need a pack mule to lug around enough repair hammers to keep up with her. A mod which merely changes mesh and textures for potion bottles sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, sometimes only works on some bottles; similarly a mod which increases ("balances") bow/arrow damage seems to function intermittently. All these mods work fine in my other install (slightly fewer mods, no OBSE, no DLC, no Bash.) As for the CS, I've found numerous custom houses, but again they are pre-fab units; most are quite nice, but that's not what i want. The only actual construction components I've found are for dungeons, I did d/l a couple of these. I miss what Morrowind gave us - individual interior walls, exterior walls, floors, ceilings, columns, beams, stairs, hallways, roof sections, chimneys, etc., so we could build what we wanted. To be analogous, Morrowind is a traditional electric train set with a box full of track; Oblivion is one of those pre-made sets with a layout on a board with scenery, and you just place the train on the track and run it. (I have read the Morrowind components can be converted to Oblivion but: 1- this must be done one piece at a time; 2- the meshes and textures are comparatively lo-res and do not look very nice in Oblivion; and 3- Bethesda says this is illegal.) Oblivion is VERY load-order sensitive. If something doesn't work properly nine times out of ten it's a load order issue. If you're used to just checking boxes in the in-game mod screen, no doubt there will be issues. If you fire-up TESedit, you can see what mod is trumping which and adjust things accordingly with the OBMM. BOSS also releases a list once a month or so for the most of the current mods. As for the CS...these mods were made with just the stock stuff... www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/46090/?
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Post by jgf on Sept 15, 2017 10:43:50 GMT
Nice looking mod, but too many caveats about compatibility for me to consider. And the CS still hasn't the flexibility to allow creation of something like www.flickr.com/gp/47045074@N07/kv89T3(my unfinished "Ebonheart Suburbs" mod from Morrowind; note - the inn near the bridge and the wizard's tower used with permission from other mods, the lighthouse from a modders' resource)
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Post by dogonporch on Sept 20, 2017 17:00:46 GMT
Nice looking mod, but too many caveats about compatibility for me to consider. And the CS still hasn't the flexibility to allow creation of something like www.flickr.com/gp/47045074@N07/kv89T3(my unfinished "Ebonheart Suburbs" mod from Morrowind; note - the inn near the bridge and the wizard's tower used with permission from other mods, the lighthouse from a modders' resource) Nice work, re: Morrowind, btw. I posted the Japanese mod just to demo what can be done with the 'out-of-the-box' meshes. David Brasher made an entire dungeon by just fitting the different rock meshes together...that was bizarre.
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