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Post by vortik on Jun 18, 2015 22:16:35 GMT
I've been playing Skyrim with Vilja for quite a long time and just yesterday I started to have trouble accessing Vilja's extra storag through dialog. I get to select the option "Bag 1", "Bag 2" and "Sell" but after that nothing happens. Selecting "Let me check your gear" and accessing Vilja's inventory does work, so it's "just" the extra storage that I'm having trouble with.
Any help or suggestions are very welcome!
Thank you, Vortik
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Post by Dova on Jun 20, 2015 13:27:07 GMT
Welcome to this little forum! Have you try accessing her extra storage through the scripted misc item in her main inventory?
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Post by vortik on Jun 25, 2015 12:46:43 GMT
Thank you for the reply :-)
I have tried that, but when I click on the item it ends up in my inventory. How do I open it?
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Post by Seyheb on Jun 25, 2015 14:41:30 GMT
When you click on the item ('Extra Storage') in Vilja's inventory it does appear to leave her inventory, but a dialogue box should then appear where you can transfer content from your inventory to the bags. When you close the dialogue box the item should then reappear in Vilja's inventory.
Are you not seeing the dialogue box appear?
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Post by vortik on Jul 10, 2015 8:40:12 GMT
Unfortunately that doesn't happen...
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Post by Cybersquirt on Jul 11, 2015 6:47:43 GMT
I assume it used to work since you said "just yesterday..". Did you install a new mod or patch?
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Post by amgepo on Jul 11, 2015 14:56:01 GMT
The scripts handling extra storages aren't running in your game. My guess is your game is running more scripts than what it can handle and it started stopping some of them before they start. This can either fix itself or gone worse to the extent of affecting every single script, depending on if this is just a temporal process increase or if there are scripts launching copies of themselves before the game can handle the previous instance (script bloat). Did your saved games size increase dramatically latelly?
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Post by vortik on Jul 13, 2015 12:16:20 GMT
Brilliant idea, amgepo! There has been an increase of 6MB from the last savegame where the script works (29MB vs. 23MB). This could also explain, why I can't take a Stone of Berenziah anymore (the "E" button doesn't work on it), which probably is script-dependent as well. Any suggestions for a solution? I do have the tool "Save game cleaner v.2.04beta" It shows me that in the last working savegame the script count is already quite high (2170). The last savegame (not working) has an even higher script count (12486). I have no idea what caused this dramatic increase. Maybe it could be about location in the game? For example, saving in Windhelm would require more scripts than saving in a dungeon... I did install a mod in the meantime, Cybersquirt, specifically "Water Destruction Magic" www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/66919/?I have uninstalled it, without success. I do have a lot of mods running, but this hasn't caused a script problem before. Thanks so much so far.
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Post by Sniffles on Jul 13, 2015 13:13:07 GMT
Brilliant idea, amgepo! There has been an increase of 6MB from the last savegame where the script works (29MB vs. 23MB). This could also explain, why I can't take a Stone of Berenziah anymore (the "E" button doesn't work on it), which probably is script-dependent as well. Any suggestions for a solution? I do have the tool "Save game cleaner v.2.04beta" It shows me that in the last working savegame the script count is already quite high (2170). The last savegame (not working) has an even higher script count (12486). I have no idea what caused this dramatic increase. Maybe it could be about location in the game? For example, saving in Windhelm would require more scripts than saving in a dungeon... I did install a mod in the meantime, Cybersquirt, specifically "Water Destruction Magic" www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/66919/?I have uninstalled it, without success. I do have a lot of mods running, but this hasn't caused a script problem before. Thanks so much so far. 29MB. 23MB. Yo guys! No more giving me rations of poo about our 17MB saves!
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Post by amgepo on Jul 13, 2015 16:20:25 GMT
Vortik, 6 Mb of difference between saves most probably mean script bloatting. Basically is a script that didn't have time to finish it's run, before being called again by itself. That means the ammount of instances of that script goes increasing, each one calling itself and thus creating new instances. This happens for using scripts that use instructions prone to this problem. A mod with such instructions could work without giving you a single problem, but if one day there is some stuttering making the script calling itself lack time to finish one run before the next one, the chain reaction starts. This happens more often when uninstalling mods than when installing them (sometimes with the uninstalling mod causing an extra script load that makes another mod with such instructions go boom).
I never used script cleanners, but I heard good things about them. I would suggest you using the one you have, at least to remove orfaned scripts (this is doable also with SKSE). If the tool includes any feature to clean non-orfaned scripts, way better.
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Post by vortik on Jul 13, 2015 16:44:40 GMT
29MB. 23MB. Yo guys! No more giving me rations of poo about our 17MB saves! Oh dear, well, congratulations on losing the top-position of having the most bloated savegames! I had no idea, 17MB would already be considered worthy of poo-giving. I hope that I'll be treated with more kindness than you have been, since I'm really glad to learn about ways to avoid this issue. I'm not a modder, and all I learned about fixing issues in Skyrim I've learned through trial and error... with a lot of trials and a lot of errors. How have you managed to keep the saves small?
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Post by Cybersquirt on Jul 13, 2015 18:21:16 GMT
How have you managed to keep the saves small? Don't pick up a lot of stuff to hoard. There is something called the "30 day trick" where you advance the game 30 days and all areas/vendors reset. If you don't have SKSE, get it - I'm surprised one of your mods doesn't require it - and get www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51038 for a basic SKSE ini. I've been using the console command markfordelete to delete ash piles and hawk bodies which never get removed; I'm not sure that makes much of a diff though. edit: skse.silverlock.org/ for skse How were you not successful at removing the mod? The only other way to rid yourself of it is to play from a save before you had it installed.
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Post by Cybersquirt on Jul 13, 2015 20:26:17 GMT
The scripts handling extra storages aren't running in your game. My guess is your game is running more scripts than what it can handle and it started stopping some of them before they start. <snip> I don't mean to hijack this thread but I'm curious.. my script count is just over 5000 and instance count is just short of 99900. Is there a hard number for scripts/instances where the game will explode?
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Post by Sniffles on Jul 13, 2015 22:57:54 GMT
29MB. 23MB. Yo guys! No more giving me rations of poo about our 17MB saves! Oh dear, well, congratulations on losing the top-position of having the most bloated savegames! I had no idea, 17MB would already be considered worthy of poo-giving. I hope that I'll be treated with more kindness than you have been, since I'm really glad to learn about ways to avoid this issue. I'm not a modder, and all I learned about fixing issues in Skyrim I've learned through trial and error... with a lot of trials and a lot of errors. How have you managed to keep the saves small? You can't keep your saves small. I'm trying to find the stuff my techy wrote about saves but essentially it was the game keeps records. It makes a new record for each cell entered and left. The record may be blank, have nothing in it, but it's there. The game engine can handle this quite well. Then each time you re-enter a cell the game checks the old record and makes a new one.
Well, we tested this. We took a pretty new character, save game around 8.3MB and make a tour of Skyrim, entering then immediately leaving each city and about 6 dungeons. Not collecting anything, just enter and leave. The Save game went tp 8.5. Then we did the entire circuit again exactly the same. Save game went to 8.8. Cleaning the saves will not remove those records. 500 visits to location X, 500 records. They may all be blank but they are still there. Each record is part of the database the game loads into memory and when that is full, gets moved to virtual memory. Obviously you can have a huge mess of records and the game will keep running perfectly. Areas and dungeons resetting don't remove records. Instead that adds a new record to the pile. The game checking old records tells it when to start a new record even if the character doesn't enter the cell and the old records are kept. The game doesn't know and can't check if there has been some change made in any of those records. Say a persistent object has been dropped or a quest item created in one of the cells, waiting to be picked up. Why does the game keep multiple records of the same unchanged cell? Chronology. Each record get's it's own timestamp and becomes unique. Okay, that's basically what he said there. Then comes the mess. Objects and alterations to the cells. Each cell, each container in each cell, gets a list. Some are recycled, and the recycling also gets a cell referenced record. So in our above game example, we played the game and advanced the Vilja mod and picked up about 500 objects. About 20 hours of playing and 8.5MB is now 13.6MB. If we got rid of every bit of stuff we had collected it might go down to 13.1 or 13.2 but the saved game will still have all the records, even if they are mostly blank. (Techy called these records reference pointers) When you add mods, it's all data that might refer to various cells. More records and more referring to old records which create yet more records. Then it can get rotten. A list gets corrupted. An object gets marked wrong. Persistent or stolen or owned when it shouldn't be. That's the save game cleaners job. It cleans out most of these dead ends, but the records will remain and can never be removed. You will still have dragon skeletons in your closet and bedroom because there is nothing wrong with a dragon skeleton in your bedroom. Once it managed to get there the game will be quite happy about it. It will probably get noted on the dragon skeleton in bedroom record that is should get marked for delete after period X, then an entry in that bedroom will have deleted dragon skeleton added. A later record of that cell will check the old records (cell contains..... and...) finds no dragon skeleton and moves on. Techy says it's about as anal retentive with it's records as the IRS. IE Enter cell, game checks old records, dragon skeleton and 4 books recycled, quest related objects, Esbern's testicles, from record dated 3 months earlier remains. Like the old Clue movie where the colonel checks a room: "Two dead bodies. Everything's fine" The more powerful the computer, more memory and faster hard drive handling the virtual memory, the better the game can cope with all these records. There is a trick to seeing how many records and how much they are slowing the game. Start a saved game timing how long it takes until the game is running. Then immediately without exiting, load that same game again. The difference in time is all the records it has to dig up from the save and load into memory and virtual memory and it finding each of those records already in memory and going on to the next. A really bloated DB without any corruption can take several seconds or even out to a half minute on a slower computer as it digs out the records from the save. Then scripts get into it and Amgepo can explain what they do to the game much better than I. I hope I made a little sense.
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Post by amgepo on Jul 14, 2015 15:24:19 GMT
About scripts and save file size, scripts themselves didn't add to it. The reseponsibles for the size increase in that regards are the functions in those scripts, while they are running. Problem here is that if a function is called 1000 times, 1000 instances of that functions will be in RAM and each one will be using memory until finished. Scripts have a huge impact on file size, specially if something is going wrong on them. About the cell loadding. The game uses spawn lists for generating NPCs and items and for creating containers contents (in the ones that are resetted). The trick here, is that after the first time, the list is generated from the last generated item instead of from the initial list. This causes two problems, first, the game won't ever erase the reference of you having entered the cel and second, if a wolf follow you from windhelm otskirts to your home in whiterun, the wolf (or whichever creature in it's list) will spawn in your home each time aftewards, until the wolf exit the cell again. Another problem with lists is that the cell respawning won't happen until you return to that cell after the spawning period have passed. Thus, if you leave a cell with a lot of items the engine is supposed to clean and never returns, the cleanning won't ever happen. About item cleanning and using markfordelete, I created this mod long time ago to clean ash piles and similars. It didn't cover ash piles from DLCs (from the ghostlike creatures in Dawnguard and ash spawns in dragonborn), as I didn't yet add that part (I guess I'll need to do it eventually), neither hawk bodies, as I didn't even knew they weren't cleanned by the engine. The unofficial patches used to cover the same items, but they stopped doint it when bethesda fixed that (aparently not propperly, as people continue reporting those items not being cleanned). It will also ensure the weapons from corpses are erased when the corpse disappear (this part is propperly handled by the unofficial patches too. Same method), as well as avoiding light and root acumulation from nirnroot plants (the unoficial patches also cover this and it's method will be the one used if both mods are installed). More than a number of scripts running, before the game goes to hell, there is a number when the game stats bypassing scripts. Those script calls are just cancelled, which may ruin quests and similars, but also allows an easier flow recovering, as the system won't need to run them.
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