Posted by: USPrivateer
Post Posted: 25 Sep 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Laura: Doubling & Broken Animations
Folks:
Having just noticed that a problem that I originally noticed with Constance just happened with Laura, I thought I post the prob and my thoughts.
Check the threads under Constance and doubling (thread is called "Duplicate Killing....." to get the full story.
forums.elricm.com/emma/viewtopic.php?t=1680Here's the issue. I just took Laura to Dagon Fel and immediately checked her master file ID. It had changed to: Metal Queen Boutique. This was the same issue that apparently caused doubling issues with Constance. I just crawled all over the boards here and noticed several posts with doubling and broken amination issues with Laura; in one post (Tim, I think...), the poster noted that they had MQB installed.
Now, this could only be in my game or on my machine (but I don't think so). I have two mods that "hijack" the file IDs for Constance and Laura. They are: Metal Queen Boutique and Assassin's Armory (AA). AA happens when I enter Meldor's shop in Balmora. MQB happens when I enter the Dagon Fel cell. Just getting off the boat at Dagon Fel equals "hijacked" file ID for both Constance & Laura.
The file ID for Laura and Constance will change to either MQB or AA. Most people will not notice that this has changed unless you check the avatar of Laura or Constance with the console command "ori".
I suspect that quite a few of the issues reported here are because of master file ID hijacking. In my game the sequence runs like this:
1. Laura or Constance's ID file is hijacked
2. I don't notice
3. Normal game play with normal saving and daily game play.
4. Teleport or use Constance's ring.
5. Get a new Constance or Laura teleported to you because the Master File ID is now "File ID=None"; and the game has replicated a new Constance or Laura and given them the "00001" avatar ID.
Originally, the idea was that it was usually the addition of mods, or movements in mod order loading would cause the doubling, and it certainly does cause havok on my game; but I think that folks will find that the "hijacking" of Master File ID is causing a good deal of the problems with doubling and animation breakage.
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Posted by: Kateri
Post Posted: 25 Sep 2006 01:10 pm Post subject:
I believe what you're saying of course, but I'm completely at a loss as to how such a thing could happen. Wrye would be the one to ask, I imagine, over at ESF, or here, at his site. He's the doubling master - and if you're not already running Wrye Mash, you should be - although beware of the Repair All function if your companion is already doubled, it'll probably delete the original. That's fine if you want that, but you might want to get your stuff off her first!!
K.
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Posted by: USPrivateer
Post Posted: 25 Sep 2006 02:32 pm Post subject:
It's not really very much of a problem for me, as I simply avoid taking Constance or Laura to those locations, and I check fairly frequently to ensure that their master file ID hasn't been taken over. No problems or doubles so far.
I don't know enough about game mechanics to understand why something like this could happen, or whether it's a problem in the mods, or with my game or machine; although my game and machine are pretty normal....
I do use Wrye Mash, but only to lock the mod load order, and maintain a general eye on the cleanliness of the saves and mods. In my game, no mod has ever moved, nor have I ever added or taken one out, so I don't really have much stability issues.
I can tell you that it definetly did happen. I checked Laura's file ID in Sadrith Mora just before fast traveling by boat to Dagon Fel, no problems. Checked again immediately after the game screen dumped me on the docks in Dagon Fel, and Laura's file ID read: Metal Queen Boutique.
In a nutshell: As long as I check and maintain that the File ID for the companion is correct, I get no doubling and no problems from the mods. I cannot say why the others don't do it. I use Mage Companion Kendra and CM Partners mods and they don't seem to have a problem. I also use Domehome, and Ingred doesn't seem to have the problem, although I'm using the Domehome version that is the special one for Balmora Expanded.
I don't know if this will help anyone, but I remember the hours of headaches I had with doubling issues for Constance, and now that I have a stable game, I just thought I'd pass on the info. I cannot imagine playing MW without Constance, Laura and Domehome; and minor little things like this are a very small price to pay for such a wonderfull addition to the MW world.
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Posted by: Neko
Post Posted: 25 Sep 2006 10:42 pm Post subject:
Wow, ... it sounds so crazy. I'm glad that you've figured out what's happening, but I still can't understand why it should be doing this to you - and doing this checking all the time sounds like a chore.
Mental note, gotta check my savegame when I get home.
-Neko [cat]
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Posted by: USPrivateer
Post Posted: 26 Sep 2006 12:08 pm Post subject:
It's not really that bad. I simply don't take Constance or Laura to Dagon Fel or inside Meldor's shop in Balmora. I don't really have to do the magic "ori" console command all that often any more and I just make sure that I have good backups. Although the Laura mod was installed in my game, I wasn't using it until recently, and then realized that it does the same things as the Constance mod. No worries.
My point of these posts was that I have seen quite a bit of people having problems with doubling and oddities with the mods, and folks assumed that it was a mod load order issue. That probably is part of the problem, but I suspect that this issue with "hijacking" is possibly also a major source of problem. There is certainly the possibility that this is only with my game or machine, but I don't think so.
What I'm using: MW GOTY Edition with both Trib and BM installed. My machine is a custom built gaming laptop with an AMD Athlon 64 Fx-60 Dual Core CPU, 2 GB of matched Crucial RAM, NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 GTX 512MB. MS Windows XP Pro (stripped and tweaked). I have around 30 mods installed, nothing particularly odd, mostly the top rated mods from ES forums. I can post my mod loads if anyone's interested.
*
I think if people keep a careful eye on the Master File ID on both Laura and Constance, that they will possibly avoid alot of problems. Again, I had so much trouble with this, and folks on this board were so helpful to me, I'd like to be sure that anyone having problems like these is easily able to find the info to help.
Lastly, if anyone is able to figure out how to re-establish the correct master file ID after a "hijacking" occurs, that would be great.
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Posted by: Neko
Post Posted: 27 Sep 2006 12:02 am Post subject:
I checked my normal save, and didn't notice any NPC doubling (yet..). But just now I tried my NEKOSAMA save (the one with the godly character used for mod testing which I don't care about mod order getting trashed), and, hey! got some doubling.
nekoland_keikotest00000000 was still there, following me, wearing some custom equipment. but in the corner, I spied nekoland_keikotest00000001, wearing the default gear from the mod.
ORI tells me that keiko..01 has her 'file' correctly set to NekoLand_KeikoTest.esp, but the existing one (from the savegame, keiko..00), her 'file' has changed to just NekoLand.esp. I suspect it might wander again if I go to certain mod-made cells.
So I think this 'hijacking' only really has a chance to occur if you're already suffering from the doubling. In my case, the original keiko..00 has been ... usurped ... by this new keiko..01 with all the mod-default settings. keiko..01 has assumed the position on the throne as belonging to file NekoLand_KeikoTest.esp, and this leaves the original without a place to go... her mod ownership drifting aimlessly from mod to mod...
That's my theory anyway.
-Neko [cat]
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Posted by: USPrivateer
Post Posted: 27 Sep 2006 11:05 am Post subject:
Interesting....... (as my occasional partner in the nefarious would say).
Ok, let's get one constant nailed down here: USPrivateer knows very little about modding or the MW game engine; I am, however, a fairly extreme power user of computers in general and quite good on multiple platforms.
So, having said that, I'd have to go on and say that my game appears to be the opposite. I seem to have doubling issues after the NPC companion's file is hijacked. I don't know that for 100% certain, but forensically that appears to be the case.
I'll give you the constants and the variables here for you to chew on (pretend it's one of those really expensive feline chew toys, with the catnip, purchased on Rodeo Drive) Smile
1. My game is stable. Wrye Mash is all blue, and I'll get an occasional CTD, but very rare really.
2. I'm using both Constance and Laura (actually have Witchgirl loaded, but haven't interacted with her yet), and have no doubles or problems with them. Also have Mage Companion Kendra loaded and in use, also with no problems.
3. I have around 30 mods loaded, nothing outrageous, mostly the more well known and respected mods. All appear to be stable.
Now for the variables:
1. If.... I take either Constance or Laura to either Dagon Fel (where the MQB mod is loaded in the cell), or into Meldor's Armor Shop in Balmora (where Assassin's Armory mod is loaded in the cell), those named mods hijack the file ID for both Constance and/or Laura, or, the Constance or Laura mods "assume" the file ID from the other mod. I have no idea which is the case.
2. At that point, the companion mod will retain the incorrect file ID until a few cell changes have occured, after which, it will drop any file ID at all, and I'm left with a "no file" reference in the ORI console command.
----Here's where it gets a bit fuzzy (pun intended)
3. Up until this point, I do not have any doubles. I have occasionally checked the spawn points in Gnisis and Vivec for Constance and Laura, and they are blessedly empty. Yay.
4. If, the file has been hijacked, then, eventually a double will appear with the tell-tail (again, pun intended) "00001" avatar ID.
5. Again, forensically, I have noted that this appears to be the case after a teleport has occured. If no teleport occurs, usually the double will just loiter around at the spawn point.
5. If, no hijacking occurs, then,I get no doubles at all. At least so far. Since I started checking, I've got about 20 hours game time and the character has progressed from around level 5 to level 12.
Anyway, there's far more information than you probably wanted. I'll let you sink your teeth into that if you like, and I'll wander off and go try and find Vagabond Angel's longswords......
Humm, an off topic (way off topic) question: regarding my cat, my real cat.......... can I PM you Neko?
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Posted by: Neko
Post Posted: 27 Sep 2006 06:36 pm Post subject:
Nya..... catnip... [ES16]
It's such an interesting problem... but I really don't know.
And yes, PM me if you like.
-Neko [cat]