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Post by jgf on Dec 13, 2016 20:11:11 GMT
How different is basic construction (houses, dungeons) in Oblivion compared to Morrowind? I'm quite familiar with the latter, having probably spent as much time in the CS as in the game, but all the tutorials i find for Oblivion house construction are little more than: find a location, move any rocks and trees out of the way, select a house and plop it down, select an interior, lasso all the interior items and copy them in, place doors and teleports, done (perhaps this explains why most mods contain the same generic buildings seen in every town ...and why you see the same buildings throughout the default game - a guild hall in one town is a merchant's shop in another and a private home somewhere else).
Several sources imply you should have a clean "no mods at all" install of Oblivion just for using the CS, to keep your mods clean. But doesn't the CS just access the default game files unless you specifically load a mod?
Where is the setting which designates whether a location appears on the map? Is it possible to have a location not appear on the map or on the compass until you "stumble upon it", at which point there will be a map icon, but never a fast travel option?
Can you move spawn points, or must they be deleted/replaced? Can you, with default options, set a longer respawn time? Is it possible, with default options, to have a creature only appear at night? (Not a vampire scenario, I'm looking at the feasibility of recreating a Morrowind mod for Oblivion - removing leveled creature lists so everything is present at the start, but assuming the guards and legion keep the areas around cities and major roads safe so the farther you go "off the beaten path" the more likely you are to encounter something dangerous.)
And where is the flag that makes you stop for highwaymen? It is ridiculous that, on horseback, you can gallop past a group of bandits but not a lone highwayman. (This wouldn't be so irritating if you could fight from horseback.)
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Post by dogonporch on Dec 22, 2016 23:30:49 GMT
You can use the CS with as much imported resources as you wish. If you plan on uploading, those resources should be included with appropriate credits given. The 'clean' part is the esp itself. Avoid altering stock/basic items, cells, etc, etc, unless you know precisely what you intend on doing. Make duplicates or unique items instead. The same goes for deleting things...rocks trees etc. It's better to sink them well out of sight....or move them somewhere else in the same cell in the case of spawns/NPCs if at all possible (B turns-on exterior cell borders). You never know what might depend on those items existing if you use a lot of mods. When moving things, take note of the AI path grid so you don't block a path or plop a tree down on-top of a way-point. But beware, AI pathing is very load order sensitive if you start moving way-points around and adding new ones. Cells without AI pathing are a no-no...in new structures like houses, be sure to include a detailed path grid so Vilja and such can get around things. Night spawns etc are handled by scripts...Crowded Cities over at Nexus uses them as a working example. www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/6665/?Individual NPCs, however, can be given very detailed AI packages...appear at point X at Y hour on Z day of the year. Highwaymen/Bandits...lots of different mods for those guys. They just behave that way...stop you (script, if I recall). Highwaymen are a unique type of NPC in the CS. |
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Post by jgf on Dec 23, 2016 13:25:39 GMT
You can use the CS with as much imported resources as you wish. If you plan on uploading, those resources should be included with appropriate credits given. My concern is not with using imported resources, but with what resources are already in the CS. Is the reason there are so many default structures used in mods because the CS does not include individual building sections (walls, floors, roofs, stairs, etc. ...as we had in Morrowind) or because using them them is such a kludge in the Oblivion CS? No tutorials mention "scratchbuilding". I've opened the CS to ascertain it was working but haven't yet explored it. (FWIW, credit isn't an issue; I've been uploading mods for twenty five years. The bugaboo on most sites today is permissions, "you cannot upload that mod because you didn't get permission from the author to use his xxxx" ...said author uploaded that file eighteen years ago, hasn't appeared in the community in fifteen years, no one around today even remembers him, and the three emails you've found are all dead ...so you cannot use that file.) The 'clean' part is the esp itself. That's what I thought. But several threads have flatly stated you need a "clean" install of Oblivion just for using the CS; and given how quirky the rest of the game is I wouldn't be surprised. Avoid altering stock/basic items, cells, etc, etc, unless you know precisely what you intend on doing. Make duplicates or unique items instead. The same goes for deleting things...rocks trees etc. It's better to sink them well out of sight....or move them somewhere else in the same cell... I'm aware of creating duplicates with individual IDs in Morrowind (how many of us accidentally had some custom item appear in every chest in the land), I assume Oblivion is the same. As for removing items like rocks, does Oblivion treat these differently from Morrowind? One of my Morrowind mods (based on someone else' mod) removed "iceberg" boulders - what you saw was only a small portion of a gigantic boulder buried in the ground ...but the rendering engine still had to create the entire model - and replaced them with smaller rocks. This made little difference in the landscape but a noticeable improvement in frame rates in some cells. (Oblivion isn't immersive enough for me to pursue this again, but I wonder if it is still an issue.) Night spawns etc are handled by scripts... Lol, I've absolutely no aptitude for scripting or dialog (hence the eventual death of my three major Morrowind mods when "assistants/partners/accomplices" disappeared) so I'll leave that alone. In Oblivion I wanted to have some creatures spawn near roads at night but be gone by daylight, so night travel would be more dangerous. ... They just behave that way...stop you (script, if I recall). Highwaymen are a unique type of NPC in the CS. So you could change these folk from "highwayman" to "bandit" and they wouldn't stop you? OTOH I've found, if you refuse to pay, you can gallop away once the dialog box closes; so it is no longer an "issue". |
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Post by dogonporch on Dec 23, 2016 15:35:58 GMT
There are many new building meshes (in/out) if you search Nexus. No shortage there.
In the CS: some structures are one complete mesh while others come in tile sets that you can rearrange. Dungeons mostly.
In Oblivion, one of the big fps suckers is usually grass settings...look for low poly grass at Nexus if fps are an issue. With that in, rocks of any kind shouldn't be a bother.
Some other things you can add to Oblivion for stability...the Stutter Remover mod being one of the best. The Engine Bug Fixes mod is also a keeper these days. A good Purge Cell Buffer mod (@ Nexus) is also helpful for long play on modded Oblivion installs. Much less crashing on doors...
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Post by dogonporch on Dec 23, 2016 15:39:04 GMT
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Post by jgf on Dec 23, 2016 16:17:57 GMT
I've been using a low poly grass mod for ages, though stutters have never been an issue for me except in a few house mods (I must turn off the fireplaces in Red Rose, and still have marginal performance there; worst case is the "Dirtier Bravil" mod, which gives me about 24fps when wandering there). Other areas fps is 60-140; normally my system is globally limited to 30fps by RTSS but, regardless of settings I've tried, this doesn't work with Oblivion ...won't even display frame rate (so I use FRAPS for that).
All the stutter removers I've seen require the OBSE, which I'm eschewing for now (in this case it doesn't sound logical - control stutters by introducing more background scripting).
Regarding buildings, you're saying most are "one piece constructs" and there is little we can mix-and-match to create our own? This just gets worse and worse. I had planned to create some custom dungeons but if I'm limited to merely sticking together default rooms/halls/tunnels to make clones of what is already present ... I've no interest. One of my great joys in Morrowind was building everything from shacks to castles (the only long term interest in Sims3 was building houses and worlds).
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Post by dogonporch on Dec 24, 2016 5:34:56 GMT
I've built huge structures using the default tiles. You should give it a go and see what's available for yourself. You can import pretty much anything else that suits you in nif format. There are massive packs of clutter and effects...etc, etc...at Nexus and LL. It's easy to import item/objects...too easy...looking at my bloated folders. Can't imagine Oblivion w/o OBSE. The Dark Ages. Might as well do the Main Quest!  But as I've mentioned, I use the recommended (for OBSE) disc installed GOTY Edition. Not Steam, etc. I understand some have trouble getting other versions of Oblivion to use OBSE properly...permissions and file paths, etc. I'm not sure exactly the issues you had with it before. Stutter Remover s really handy as a governor on heavily modded Oblivion installs. For example, your PC enters the IC Palace Grounds cell at Noon and there just happens to be 100 NPCs doing their business. Instead of crashing or locking-up, it will slow the game engine down to say...15 FPS (smooth) until the AI sort itself out. Default is only 20 NPCs in a complex scene, so if you want more activity in your cities than that at any one time, you need the up the number in the CS or download Mass-AI. Much of Oblivion's AI and scripting runs on a per-frame basis so a smooth execution is preferable to jerks and stutters where some important script or AI package gets dropped. If that makes sense... Smoother is better than high FPS with jerks |
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Post by jgf on Dec 28, 2016 15:33:41 GMT
...You can import pretty much anything else that suits you in nif format. Such as all the building segments from Morrowind? (Since I've found no mods like this I assume it either cannot be done or cannot be uploaded.) I did find some interesting construction sets for dungeons, but everything I've found for houses is merely new textures for the default meshes (and an inordinate number of that ridiculous nexus message, "this file has been hidden by the author, you may not view or download..."; why "hide" it instead of just removing it from the library? (I picture lonely and/or egotistic modders awaiting a flood of email following their decision)). ...There are massive packs of clutter and effects...etc, etc... Lol, there's enough clutter in the game already; and, unlike Morrowind, the vast majority has so little value it's not even worth hauling to a merchant at the start of a game when your character is a pauper ...even silver weapons are worthless. Perhaps I'm rather prosaic but most of the default graphics and sounds, the weather effects, etc., are quite acceptable to me; some of the NPCs are, to be generous, grievously unattractive (Jensine looks like her features were painted on a cement block), but, unless there are caveats unknown to me, a few minutes in the CS should give them decent makeovers. I did try a couple of mods for "improved" spell effects, but didn't care for every fireball being a nuclear blast, and what mage wants to be blinded by his own shock bolts; in that vein, I did keep a mod which gives a much improved detect life effect (a subdued dark red from which you can actually discern the creature, as opposed to the default amorphous purple cloud). Can't imagine Oblivion w/o OBSE. In all probability, if interest doesn't wane first, I will use the SE; but I prefer mods that do not require it, so am seeking such now. At risk of being redundant I can only assume either Oblivion's core programming is so deficient that external scripting is necessary for virtually everything, or there is status associated with a mod's requirement of OBSE (a mod requiring OBSE *must* be better than one which accomplishes the same thing without it; someone whose mod(s) require OBSE *must* be a more knowledgeable, "better" modder). The latter assumption is bolstered by the many mods which do something simple, like a head/hair replacer, but "require" OBSE. There is also a conundrum (almost a hypocrisy) with OBSE - many people go to great lengths to reduce as many background processes and programs as possible before running resource intensive games, but, by definition, every mod requiring OBSE is adding to that background overhead. How many scripts does each mod use? Only the author knows; for sake of argument let's say an average of five scripts, that means running thirty OBSE mods adds - one hundred and fifty! (150!) - background scripts to the system (and you were so happy to eliminate ten processes from task manager). A major failing of Oblivion, for me, is the pathetically low number of quests. The Mages' Guild has one for each chapter then a handful for the university (the latter being literally "finish a quest, get an advancement" til you become Arch-Mage). The Fighters' Guild is even worse, only a couple of chapters give quests so a couple of evenings' play and you've become the Grand High Holy Poobah of the Guild. But all these quests are done without OBSE; every mod I've found which adds guild quests requires OBSE. (I realize the SE may allow some cute or deadly or unexpected events in a quest, but that doesn't excuse every quest mod being created with it.) But as I've mentioned, I use the recommended (for OBSE) disc installed GOTY Edition. Not Steam, etc. I understand some have trouble getting other versions of Oblivion to use OBSE properly...permissions and file paths, etc. I'm not sure exactly the issues you had with it before. The plethora of versions was a decided red flag for me (especially when they said a specific version of OBSE would work with the disc version of V1.2.4 but not with the disc version of V1.0 updated, via the official patch, to V1.2.4), but i've never installed OBSE at all. I did install BASH, did nothing more than start it once, leaf through the tabs, and exit. Had to remove and reinstall the game since it wouldn't even load to the menu afterwards. For example, your PC enters the IC Palace Grounds cell at Noon and there just happens to be 100 NPCs doing their business. A hundred NPCs?! Good lord! I studiously avoid the default NPCs! (They have nothing useful to say but are intent on saying it if you are within range.) FWIW, I rarely go to the Palace since there's nothing to do there, not even any decent loot (just like the sewers, except there's more of them to explore before you realize that). |
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Post by dogonporch on Dec 28, 2016 16:15:06 GMT
To each their own: my install is about 10 years old now. There is no place left unfinished. Not a single place. I lie...I'm still building Blackwood. You can always try my Hammerfell...it's about as big as the rest of the play-area. I uploaded that one.  OBSE: as I've said before, they're all backwards compatible. The latest version runs all. The only issues I've heard of is different versions of Oblivion not liking OBSE if it uses an encrypted exe file...which the DVD GOTY Edition doesn't have (the preferred version of Oblivion). Without OBSE, you're missing-out on numerous things...too many to list. It has zero effect on frame rates. NPCs: this install has an estimated population of well over 5000 NPCs. More if you count temporary ones. We also have about a dozen what would be called 'Main Quests' and thousands of 'Minor Quests' to try and accomplish...or not...I couldn't go back to vanilla Oblivion. Nif files: as long as they're in a format Oblivion understands. NifSkop is your friend, here. Import: re-texture: plop 'er down...see how it looks. Clutter, etc: there are mods for mods after this many years out. If you don't want valueless clutter or useless clutter there are mods for that, too. Emma uses lots of cool clutter and utilized 'crafty bits' to enable many of the mundane Oblivion tools. The more the merrier, I say. Sewers: somebody modded those, too...they're pretty awesome now. |
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Post by jgf on Jan 1, 2017 23:01:19 GMT
That's the nice thing about these games, you can, within limits, play them as you like. (My Morrowind install dates to summer '03; I install the default game to a new system then copy everything over from the old; unfortunately I played and modded so much that whenever I've returned the past couple of years it is too much "been there, done that". I fear that point will come much, much sooner with Oblivion.)
I wouldn't mind extra NPCs if they are pertinent, but if they exist merely to make the city crowded I'd find them an irritant (as in real life, lol ...all those people downtown are there just to get in my way). Emma's crafting is a nice addition; something to do when it's too late to sell loot and too early to go to bed. COBL adds interest to the game also.
As for OBSE, frame rates aren't my concern, system overhead and stability are; I can't imagine dozens, if not hundreds, of scripts running and not affecting either ("script error" messages in everything from browsers to graphics editors often cause me to inventory my stock of unacceptable language). But, as I've said, it will probably get installed; if for no other reason than there is one mod I want for which I've yet to find a non-OBSE version - the Oblivion equivalent of NOM (Necessities Of Morrowind).
Also been seeking mods to "fix" two irritants in the game. First is a new robe mesh, I've found several but they all edit the upper robe, adding paudrons or high collars, but none addresses what I find so hideous - that inverted "V" in the front that makes everyone, to my eyes, appear bowlegged (not to mention, "close your robe!"). There is one robe in the game that does not have this - the white robe some mages wear; if there is no mod doing what i seek, I wonder how much trouble it would be to replace the other robes with this one.
The other "problem" deals with NPC and creature "death throws". I kill an NPC in a cave, either targeted spell or arrow, and the body is blown across the room, where I often spend thirty minutes (game time) clambering around rocks and stalagmites seeking it. This even affects Vilja, the fatal blow from her sword will send a bandit cartwheeling up in teh air, to land thirty feet away. I've found one mod which purports to alter the physics, but after a long dissertation about "ragdolls" and bodies rolling downhill and previous mods merged into this one, etc.etc.etc. I've no idea exactly what it does.
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Post by dogonporch on Jan 2, 2017 7:12:57 GMT
That's the nice thing about these games, you can, within limits, play them as you like. (My Morrowind install dates to summer '03; I install the default game to a new system then copy everything over from the old; unfortunately I played and modded so much that whenever I've returned the past couple of years it is too much "been there, done that". I fear that point will come much, much sooner with Oblivion.) I wouldn't mind extra NPCs if they are pertinent, but if they exist merely to make the city crowded I'd find them an irritant (as in real life, lol ...all those people downtown are there just to get in my way). Emma's crafting is a nice addition; something to do when it's too late to sell loot and too early to go to bed. COBL adds interest to the game also. As for OBSE, frame rates aren't my concern, system overhead and stability are; I can't imagine dozens, if not hundreds, of scripts running and not affecting either ("script error" messages in everything from browsers to graphics editors often cause me to inventory my stock of unacceptable language). But, as I've said, it will probably get installed; if for no other reason than there is one mod I want for which I've yet to find a non-OBSE version - the Oblivion equivalent of NOM (Necessities Of Morrowind). Also been seeking mods to "fix" two irritants in the game. First is a new robe mesh, I've found several but they all edit the upper robe, adding paudrons or high collars, but none addresses what I find so hideous - that inverted "V" in the front that makes everyone, to my eyes, appear bowlegged (not to mention, "close your robe!"). There is one robe in the game that does not have this - the white robe some mages wear; if there is no mod doing what i seek, I wonder how much trouble it would be to replace the other robes with this one. The other "problem" deals with NPC and creature "death throws". I kill an NPC in a cave, either targeted spell or arrow, and the body is blown across the room, where I often spend thirty minutes (game time) clambering around rocks and stalagmites seeking it. This even affects Vilja, the fatal blow from her sword will send a bandit cartwheeling up in teh air, to land thirty feet away. I've found one mod which purports to alter the physics, but after a long dissertation about "ragdolls" and bodies rolling downhill and previous mods merged into this one, etc.etc.etc. I've no idea exactly what it does. NPCs: We found it irritating that everybody you ran into was somehow connected to the Quest Line...lol. NPCs can slow things down if there's too many and the AI limit has been reached. Twenty is the default number. I posted some good NPC mods in the Oblivion Mods page. If you build your own, you can add any number of AI packages to give them any function (other than wander) you like in terms of being pertinent. OBSE: It's pretty-much expected that you have OBSE re: mods these days. Our favorite Needs Mod is this one...and we've tried many. www.mediafire.com/file/cv2gktamy7il6yr/Hungry+Thirsty+Sleepy+Tired-24079.zipThis one affects both the PC/NPCs and Creatures...very nice. We not long ago watched in amazement as a group of hungry monkeys looted all the food barrels and a small garden outside an inn. Vilja eats like a horse. Note: Once installed, you start Oblivion from the OBSE icon as Admin...be sure to have Admin Privileges. Armor/Clothes mods: there are so many...everything has been re-done and/or made-over. Females, again, get all the good ones... I don't use Wrye Bash...preferring to merge things myself in the Construction Kit. But that's the way to add pretty-much unlimited clothes to the game...mass combine into one esp. If you are into 'dressing NPCs', a handy Companion Mod like Mad Companions/Human Touch or Companion Share & Recruit can be used. We run both to get both mod's features...but ignore them re: Vilja since she has her own built-in Companion System. But you can add new clothes to any NPC....give them food if they need some, etc. Flying dead bodies...ours don't do this anymore. Something we added...not sure what. Lovers: One can joke about Lovers and what it does, but it really does add an 'emotion chip' (as per Data in Star Trek) to the NPCs. It meshes perfectly with Vilja who will get tons more features and dialogue (written). Plus...when she starts talking about spending the day by the fire with a bottle of wine...she means it! |
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