|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 26, 2017 17:44:58 GMT
As Vilja says, it shouldn't be a crime to kill an adventurer in a dungeon. The entire scenario of "your killing has been seen by forces unknown" is illogical to the point of being ridiculous; who saw you? how? are we to believe the assassins are omniscient? or telepathic? Even if you are outside where there may be someone within sight, unknown to you, when you kill an innocent, how do you instantly get the message? But if you are in the wilderness, halfway between nowhere and nowhere else, a hundred feet underground, with no one but you, Vilja, and the adventurer.....  Two things I have read of adventurers apparently do not apply to my game: if you kill one while sneaking it isn't reported (I'm always sneaking in dungeons), and they will fight bandits and marauders (absolutely false, I've seen them standing there talking to those folk). In fact that latter point is how I usually end up "murdering" one - they are in the same room with three or four bandits and no one is fighting, so I assume they are all bandits. I have considered several solutions to this irritant. The first was suggested by my ladyfriend, give them something unique to wear (she suggested a big pink plume in their helmets, lol); I considered an "Orc green" armor, but I think their armor levels with the player, so this would entail making several sets of armor, and I'm not sure if the game is hard coded to merely select a certain level of armor for them as the player levels or if specific armor could be specified. Next is my preference - just make killing them not a crime. But I suspect this is coded into their adventurer status and not easily changed. So, the simplest solution remains - just remove them from the game. They only appear in a handful of dungeons, and only have a 20% chance of appearing, but there are six different adventurers who can appear. So do they have a spawn point or are they called by script? If the former, should I delete the spawn point? disable it? or set its chance to 0%? (What to do these points look like in Oblivion? I remember the "ninja monkeys" in Morrowind, lol.) But if the latter, I assume the script should be disabled, and have no idea how to do that. |
|
|
|
Post by thenryb on Sept 26, 2017 22:12:57 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by dogonporch on Sept 27, 2017 3:17:26 GMT
There be lots of great DB mods... Dark Brotherhood Continued and Dark Brotherhood Chronicles come to mind... www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/25689/?www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/41090/?All armor for bandits etc are selected from a leveled list that you can indeed edit as you see fit...remove leveling...whatever. Bandits and Marauders can be unpredictable as their hostility towards you can affected by numerous things. My wife had one character with a personality of 200 or so....she just walked up and chatted with them most of the time. |
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 27, 2017 15:25:46 GMT
Not sure how useful DB mods would be to me as I've no intention of ever becoming an assassin. Indeed, in all the years I played Morrowind I joined the assassins once, did less than half the quests and went no further (it's just a game, but having to kill, in cold blood, someone with whom I have no quarrel just rubs me the wrong way on so many levels).
Had this discussion years ago on another Morrowind forum (may have been Emma's old site) and was asked, "well, who would you kill?", which led to several of us working on a revamp of the assassins' guild where all your targets would be reprehensible people - a deserter from the Legion who became a highwayman, his victims suspected nothing because he was in uniform; a rogue mage selling his services for nefarious purposes; a well respected citizen whose wealth came from manufacturing skooma; a ship's captain ostensibly working for the Twin Lamps but actually reselling the escaped slaves; etc. (No idea if this was ever finished, as so often happens we drifted apart while working on it.) I would welcome such a mod for Oblivion.
Otherwise I'll just look into removing those adventurers from the game.
|
|
|
|
Post by chambcra on Sept 29, 2017 15:07:53 GMT
I found the 1st adventurer in the NPC list.
AdventurerOrcBattlemage01 > Right click > use info
you see Type: LVLC and Editor ID: OrcAdventurerRandom25 Use count: 2
do text search "OrcAdventurerRandom25"
you see it is Type LeveledCreature
look in the LeveledCreature list and there is OrcAdventurerRandom25
do the use info on that and you see two interiors
I'm pretty sure if you look at those two interiors in the cell window you will find the spawn points. You could delete those spawn points
This is just like what I did to fix the creatures in the back yard of the Red Rose Manor.
I have a feeling you may find a bit more than a handful of caves with adventurers. With just the AdventurerOrcBattlemage01 there are 16 uses. (I think)
I hope this isn't a wild goose chase. When I sort by name in the npc list I see ten adventurers that are all orcs. If you know where some other types exist maybe you can track them down.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 29, 2017 17:27:14 GMT
Thanks for the input. (removing the spawns near Red Rose is another project, those meandering trolls lower property values)
I easily found the adventurer Orcs in the CS, they are first in the list when you check "NPC/Orc". According to UESP (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Adventurer ) there is a 25% chance of encountering them in two locations and a 10% chance in 14 other locations, and six types of adventurers with six levels (from leather to Orcish armor).
So I assume I could remove those 16 spawn points and eliminate adventurers from the game; but they are good sources of loot, especially as all carry enchanted weapons, and you can frenzy bandits or marauders to attack them, so an alternative is to create six custom "adventurer cuirasses" (cuirassi?) just for them, no change in stats, but custom textures easily distinguished in the murky depths of a dungeon. The first method is simplest, but the latter may be more acceptable. (Anything beats my current, immersion busting, solution - invoke the console and check every NPC in the area before attacking.)
|
|
|
|
Post by dogonporch on Sept 29, 2017 17:33:50 GMT
Deleting is actually a no-no...could cause issues with other mods...etc.
You're better off either moving the spawn (somewhere in the same cell...for outdoors) or sinking it to -30000 (also in its original cell).
|
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 29, 2017 23:08:56 GMT
Deleting is actually a no-no...could cause issues with other mods...etc. Admittedly I know little of the mechanics of Oblivion, but unless a mod depended on a specific NPC/creature spawning at a specific point I can't see how removing a spawn point would have negative effects (I deleted/moved many in an addition to another mod which unleveled all creatures in Morrowind; the idea being guards/troops/hunters would keep the environs of settled areas and major roads clear of truly dangerous creatures). or sinking it to -30000 (also in its original cell). The problem with this being system resources are wasted generating and controlling things which will never be seen. Perhaps not an issue with a modern high-end gaming system, but a consideration on systems where FSAA causes a noticeable performance hit. |
|
|
|
Post by dogonporch on Sept 30, 2017 12:16:06 GMT
Deleting is actually a no-no...could cause issues with other mods...etc. Admittedly I know little of the mechanics of Oblivion, but unless a mod depended on a specific NPC/creature spawning at a specific point I can't see how removing a spawn point would have negative effects (I deleted/moved many in an addition to another mod which unleveled all creatures in Morrowind; the idea being guards/troops/hunters would keep the environs of settled areas and major roads clear of truly dangerous creatures). or sinking it to -30000 (also in its original cell). The problem with this being system resources are wasted generating and controlling things which will never be seen. Perhaps not an issue with a modern high-end gaming system, but a consideration on systems where FSAA causes a noticeable performance hit. If it's just for yourself, you can do whatever. I'm just repeating convention. |
|
|
|
Post by chambcra on Sept 30, 2017 15:18:01 GMT
I forgot to mention you can also check the "set to initially disabled" box. If a mod had a quest to kill one dirty dozen adventurers that mod could be affected I would think. I saw 16 uses for that one npc. You also would have all the uses for the other 9 npc's that are called adventurers to deal with too. It could be done with a little grunt work but the custom armor for those npc's sounds a lot easier and more fun to me. I thought you were asking if they did spawn and how is that done. I also wonder if it's only the dead ones that respawn. I wonder if an alive adventurer could walk around forever possibly after the spawn point was removed/disabled.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 30, 2017 16:41:31 GMT
Not intending to be argumentative, just curious. Oblivion seems much more finicky about many things than Morrowind, so I seek more info before editing very much (recently read a lengthy thread on locating corrupt spawn points, which are apparently contained in save files and can crash the game when you are within two cells of them ...but no mention of how they become corrupt or if there is anything to do to help prevent such corruption).
Another mod I plan is the same thing I did in Morrowind - getting rid of "hidden" objects. Those rocks, boulders, fallen trees, fences, etc. that are completely underground and never normally seen in the game, but still must be rendered every time the cell is loaded (in Morrowind there is an entire cottage underground except for a tiny portion of the roof, which I discovered when I fell between some rocks and found myself standing on it). "Iceberg boulders" are another resource wasting item - what appears to be a small rock by the road is actually the tip of a gigantic boulder, the entire thing must be rendered just for that little part you see; delete it and replace with a small boulder slightly embedded in the ground (without before/after screenshots you would never notice the difference). In Morrowind I actually realized over 20% improvement in frame rates overall, enough to offset installing high-res texture mods. But if Oblivion is likely to have a fit if such items are removed/replaced I will definitely have to reconsider. (Qarl's textures for Oblivion brought my system to its knees, even though I'm using a GTX950 2gig vid card.)
|
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Sept 30, 2017 17:16:53 GMT
.... I thought you were asking if they did spawn and how is that done. I was. Given that there are several classes that could spawn (warrior, mage, etc.), several individual adventurer NPCs that could spawn, and several levels at which they could spawn, I wondered if this were accomplished via ordinary spawn points or via scripting. I also wonder if it's only the dead ones that respawn. I wonder if an alive adventurer could walk around forever possibly after the spawn point was removed/disabled. Good point. Would that particular adventurer occupy that particular dungeon until killed by you or the other occupants when they respawn, or would the "dice be rolled" to recompute the chance of an adventurer being present the next time you entered that dungeon? And if adventurer A is alive in that dungeon are there safeguards so the game does not spawn him in another appropriate dungeon you enter? (There's a recipe for disaster - adventurer A is killed in one dungeon while alive in another.) Initially I just wanted to remove the "accidental killing is murder" aspect; for example if the adventurer class had a "murder=1" that could be changed. But that would be too simple. I also note that if you create a custom class for your character it is by default listed as "adventurer", I don't know if there is any relation between player class and NPC class but can definitely see issues if there is. So I agree, creating a custom cuirass for each armor used, with a simple texture change, is probably the best way. Pay attention in dungeons and do not kill any Orcs in green armor ...unless you're looking to join the assassins. (Not a neon green or anything outlandish, just something you could discern.) |
|
|
|
Post by chambcra on Oct 1, 2017 13:30:59 GMT
Sounds like a good plan. I was thinking of something slightly comical like "ADVENTURER" on the front and back or a big red circle with a slash through it. There might be some interest in this. You could put it up for download with options to pick the armor you want. I think it's a good idea. I'd like to try it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgf on Oct 1, 2017 14:50:11 GMT
Sounds like a good plan. I was thinking of something slightly comical like "ADVENTURER" on the front and back or a big red circle with a slash through it. There might be some interest in this. You could put it up for download with options to pick the armor you want. I think it's a good idea. I'd like to try it. Lol! I may try that. |
|
