Vilja (SE) follower count

[DragonbornTom]

She had 10 followers, 7 of them died, now she still has 3 followers. But I can't add any more followers to her. The option is not available anymore on other NPCs.
How to solve?

[wotan]

Set PlayerFollowerCount To 0

That coonsole command should do it.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 21, 2021 4:51:59 GMT wotan said:

Set PlayerFollowerCount To 0

That coonsole command should do it.

Thanks, unfortunately no, doesn't change anything.

[Sniffles]

Try this. Save the game, click on Vilja (get her ref number) then type RECYCLEACTOR and hit enter. Then move to a different cell. Upon moving she respawns with her variables reset.

We need amgepo to help out here.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 22, 2021 10:37:51 GMT Sniffles said:

Try this. Save the game, click on Vilja (get her ref number) then type RECYCLEACTOR and hit enter. Then move to a different cell. Upon moving she respawns with her variables reset.

We need amgepo to help out here.

She will not loose her last three followers or anything else from her inventory?

[Sniffles]

Dec 23, 2021 9:40:34 GMT DragonbornTom said:

Dec 22, 2021 10:37:51 GMT Sniffles said:

Try this. Save the game, click on Vilja (get her ref number) then type RECYCLEACTOR and hit enter. Then move to a different cell. Upon moving she respawns with her variables reset.

We need amgepo to help out here.

She will not loose her last three followers or anything else from her inventory?

That's what the save is for. It isn't supposed to affect NPC inventories, but just reset variables to their original values. Test and if things go bonkers, reload the save. Since Vilja isn't a normal NPC, and even normal NPCs can act weird after a recycle, it's pure guesswork what will happen.

[Sniffles]

By the way, if you do the recycle and move to a different cell she may respawn somewhere else. Just remember her Ref ID and in the console enter RefID.MoveTo Player -> in the console, click on vilja. It automatically takes and remembers her ID.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 24, 2021 0:29:44 GMT Sniffles said:

By the way, if you do the recycle and move to a different cell she may respawn somewhere else. Just remember her Ref ID and in the console enter RefID.MoveTo Player -> in the console, click on vilja. It automatically takes and remembers her ID.

That doesn't fix the issue and she lost all inventory, except food.

So I did another check, and told one follower of Vilja not to follow her anymore. When the follower has left, I got the dialog back to make one of my follower following Vilja.

How can I clean up the died follower from Vilja?

[Sniffles]

Okay, this is starting to make sense. Vilja over-rides the in game follower limit so she has her own way of keeping track. So game commands won't have any effects on her counts and lists. What she probably has is a record of the ref ID of her follower(s).
Was the dead follower a generic NPC? If you have a saved game with that NPC in it you can get the ID and then in the present game do a RefID.resurrect Then have it follow her and have her dismiss it.
If it is a named NPC this may not work.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 27, 2021 10:45:51 GMT Sniffles said:

Okay, this is starting to make sense. Vilja over-rides the in game follower limit so she has her own way of keeping track. So game commands won't have any effects on her counts and lists. What she probably has is a record of the ref ID of her follower(s).
Was the dead follower a generic NPC? If you have a saved game with that NPC in it you can get the ID and then in the present game do a RefID.resurrect Then have it follow her and have her dismiss it.
If it is a named NPC this may not work.

The died followers of her, where NPC from another mod 

www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/595

Will see if I can find their RefIDs.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 27, 2021 10:45:51 GMT Sniffles said:

Okay, this is starting to make sense. Vilja over-rides the in game follower limit so she has her own way of keeping track. So game commands won't have any effects on her counts and lists. What she probably has is a record of the ref ID of her follower(s).
Was the dead follower a generic NPC? If you have a saved game with that NPC in it you can get the ID and then in the present game do a RefID.resurrect Then have it follow her and have her dismiss it.
If it is a named NPC this may not work.

So, too bad. Seems to be a bug in the follower framework of Vilja.

Found the RefIds from some followers of Vilja and could resurrect each.

But when I dismiss one of her current follower to add the one resurrected and dismiss the one again, the situation will not change. Still she can have only how many she has left after the others died.

So it is still needed to cleanup the died followers from her follower framework count.

[Sniffles]

That does sound like a bug, or more properly an oversight in Vilja. When a mod takes charge over game mechanics all sorts of unforeseen problems can occur that the game cannot correct. She obviously is keeping a list of some sort. We desperately need amgepo here who did the lions share of work on Vilja code but seems to be missing.
If all else fails there is always the Vilja - Beata reset. Go to the Bannered Mare in Whiterun and talk to Beata.

Talk to Vilja. Select the topic Traveling Together then go through the menu list. Then select Off Topic - Configurations and Settings. Then select We Have Already Done (some of) You're Quests. Vilja will tell you to speak to Beata. You can then rewind her quests which in turn may reset her lists to before your problems. It is obviously a bad idea to have a mod altering another mod. No telling what problems will arise.

In this case you will need the Ref ID. The mod may only give you the Base or Form ID which the game creates the Ref ID from. What I think is happening is the game mechanics and Vilja are looking for a Ref ID that was made after Vilja was installed and doesn't exist in the lists. That Ref ID in turn set a follower count but Vilja cannot find it to implement her mechanics to reset the follower count value.

Another option is reinstall that mod and re-hire the follower. Probably best would be to rehire and dismiss all the followers from that mod then don't have them follow Vilja. Have them follow the PC instead. The PC uses game mechanics code which includes a huge set of game mechanics variables and configs to cope with mods. Vilja doesn't have those and relies on the game to supply them.

[Sniffles]

The nuts and boltz. Everything in the game that can be interacted with has a template. These are permanent records that cannot be changed or altered known as the base or Form ID. From these templates objects are made that can be moved, used, interacted with. They are all Ref IDs made from the Form IDs that populate the cells, areas of the game. The PC moves into a cell and changes the objects or removes them, or even adds more objects - or removes them. These alterations are all kept in the saved games. The base game remains the same. So saved games are records and reverting to a saved game simply takes everything back in time, resetting everything that was altered to what things were at that time.

Yeah yeah. So what is the point?
Vilja is essentially a miniature game within the game. She uses the game mechanics, and she has some of her own. Every time she interacts with a Ref ID object she either uses the game mechanics to keep track OR she keeps track of things herself. She picks up a sword. The game adds RefID to her inventory. The PC takes the sword from her. Game subtracts RefID from it's Vilja-the-container list and adds it to the PCs list.
She picks up a RefID, a follower. Game mechanics can't keep track of a follower having a follower. So Vilja maintains her own list. Now it is outside the game's ability to deal with that follower. But Vilja does not have a few hundred lines of code that the game does to deal with every possible thing that RefID has happen to it.

In the case of this thread, game mechanics has code that checks every detail of RefID follower. Is essential? Has been modified? Has an inventory. Is supposed to interact with other RefID? Has been removed from the grid? Sold, got lost, got dead, etc etc etc.

So somewhere in the saved game Vilja's RefID follower is still there though it died. She has the code to remove objects from her list using game mechanics like the PC taking the object away. She may not have the code to recognize that a certain object in her list has died. But the game knows it died and removed the RefID from the grid. Of course the game didn't notify Vilja as she didn't exist when the game was made.

This is the problem with every mod that adds RefID objects to the grid. NEVER REMOVE THAT MOD!! EVER EVER, unless it has a clean up code. The game will end up with orphan objects. Objects that have no form ID and no assignments, capabilities, assigned to it. And as far as clean up code goes, it's quite rare a mod will have a comprehensive one that resets every last detail of everything that interacted with everything in that mod. For one thing, it isn't enough to clean the present game. Each and every saved game where the mod was present must be cleaned as well.

In the case of the follower that isn't there but is, it's the same as removing a mod. The game enacted the 'is dea' code, but didn't notify Vilja. In turn, Vilja also uses the 'is dead' code instead of having her own extensive library of code to reset all the lists and variables. That would be a very bad idea, allowing a mod those capabilities. So Vilja is staring at the game which is staring at Vilja and both are going What follower?

[Aatrnasyn]

Really insightful explanation, very illuminating. Thanks! Should be made a sticky post. Now if one of the coders who know what the list is that Vilja uses to keep track of who her followers are, dragonborn's issue might be able to be resolved.

[DragonbornTom]

Dec 29, 2021 13:44:41 GMT Aatrnasyn said:

Really insightful explanation, very illuminating. Thanks! Should be made a sticky post. Now if one of the coders who know what the list is that Vilja uses to keep track of who her followers are, dragonborn's issue might be able to be resolved.

Yes, and what I but in bold letters for this mod, not to use protected followers for Vilja but ONLY essential followers!