A cool mod for Archer type characters.

[Falion]

I found this recently as I've been a bit frustrated at the low power zoom ( for a FOV of 75 or over ) and the unrealistic stamina drain ( way to fast for a seasoned archer ) and thought I'd post it here, in case some of you might be looking for something like this as well.


www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53172/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D53172%26preview%3D&pUp=1

[zedtsayid]

thanks

[Sniffles]

Thanks! And a question. What is really needed for archers is an adrenaline boost thing. I describe:
It is for closer combat.
-It doesn't zoom, only makes things go in slow motion.
-The stamina drops as normal or even faster. It's a high pressure situation after all.
-The stamina recovers faster than normal. The pressure is off.
-Quick Shot and Steady Hand 2 perks are mandatory.
The mod pretty much is self explanatory. A very practiced and refined archer becomes capable of using the bow in close quarters. Any idea how to get such a mod?
Honestly, if someone is bow competent they shouldn't need the stamina adjustment or the higher zoom. Really, that's asking game mechanics to make up for poor game play skills. The mod I'm suggesting actually happens IRL archery field competitions. You walk through thick bushes and undergrowth and the targets can appear almost under your feet. If you are in the zone and really on top of it your brain can slow motion the shot. Really, it has to. Depending on the distance from where you stand you can get as little as 2 seconds to get a snap shot off.

I absolutely adored field trials. It forces you to be more alive and aware. Your bow is dialed up to accommodate the farthest expected shot so it's a royal bitch to get it drawn fast. You don't have time to adjust your sights so they are set on a guessed median level and you have to make an instant adjustment in your mind. You have to think in a full 180 degrees or even more and be able to spin around off side instantly and you have to reknock automatically without looking as you have to keep your eyes on your surroundings and multiple targets may appear in close succession or even two  at once.

[Seyheb]

It looks like a useful mod for us archer-types. Thanks for posting it, Falion.

[Falion]

Welcome mate Seyheb No issues with it so far, it seems to work perfectly.

[Sniffles]

BTW, thanks Falion for the link. But, think about it. These aren't double cam compound bows. With an average bow you are holding 30 lbs in an awkward position rock steady. Dial it up to a dragon bone bow it would be what, about 90 lbs or more? You just aren't going to hold that steady for more than a few seconds. You got this thing called lactic acid build up in your muscles. No matter how strong you are it is going to increase as long as the muscle is tensed. Worse, stronger more massive muscles have more trouble getting rid of the acid. The more acid to be dispersed through your respirations, the greater the negative effect on stamina. In fact, it's a paradox. Body builders have the easiest time drawing and holding a string but suffer the worst from the acid build up. Those big lumps of muscle don't have the blood flow to disperse the acid.
So short term stamina loss is always a major factor with archery. The limiting factor.

[Falion]

Not true Sniffles, I am a lifelong archer, and was a bow hunter and competitor for years. When I was younger, and when I was shooting 60-100 arrows every night training for tournaments, I could hold back my 65 pound recurve for at least 70-80 seconds before any bad arm fatigue and shake began to set in. With a 65 pound compound bow, with 50 or more percent let-off that hold time would just increase. So no, I totally disagree with your premise that a seasoned archer can not hold a bow at full draw for more than a few seconds. I would agree that a 90 pound draw weight would be very difficult to hold, for more than perhaps 10-15 seconds, but the rapid drain that Beth's developers put on holding your bow at draw is just a bit much and adds up too quickly.

Can the average person hold such a bow at draw for such a time, or someone not trained as an archer? Absolutely not!  However, we are talking about the Dragonborn here...the most fearsome being to walk the realm of Skyrim in centuries and he or she can't hold back a bow for more than 10-20 seconds without being totally fatigued and wiped out? Unlikely! Nor should he or she be so darn weak in this aspect, but that's just my viewpoint lol.

What I've been doing concerning the stamina drain, is in the MCM menu, is to leave it it set at 10 ( the default ). For every 20 points my characters archery skill goes up, I am dialing it down by one point. So, by the time my character gets to 100 skill level, the stamina drain will be set at 5, half of what it started as. This seems more likely to me and a bit more fair, since the more you train, the better and the more strength you have built up in the required muscles that are needed.

However, besides that point, if you don't want to adjust your stamina drain, you don't have to use it...it's strictly an option. You can leave that function left untouched in the MCM menu if you so desire. Now as to the bow zoom level, it was kind of designed for a FOV of around 65, so by dialing it up a notch, it is compensating for any users using a FOV of 75 or greater and making the zoom actually useful again.

[Seyheb]

Ahaa, I was just about to say something like that about the Dragonborn's abilities. Also, studies of the physique of English Tudor bowman and also bows recovered from the wreck of the Tudor Mary Rose warship showed that seasoned fighting bowmen could handle bows way beyond what anyone can do today, and during a battle of course.

[Falion]

Exactly so Seyheb

[Sniffles]

I agree that the stamina drops too fast after doing some testing.
But your 65# recurve example places you in the top 5% of world class archers. www.bowhunting-forum.com/showthread.php?10833-How-Long-can-you-hold-your-bow-at-full-draw etc.
Also, neither you nor I took into account female archers. We simply don't have the upper body muscular development that men have. (Not disputable - that is a physiological fact) though there are (very) rare exceptions. The 60-40 40-60 anatomical rule.
I'm out of shape now but I dialed my bow to the top, 62# with 40% let off and held it still for just over 20 seconds. At 30 seconds it became no shot. For 30 draws I held steady for over 15 seconds. Another one that doesn't make any sense is the overdraw damage increase. Overdraw? Draw is draw. Arm length doesn't increase.
But then, bows always get a bad rap in games. They are automatically given less damage potential when they do about the same damage as any other weapon, or more. Take your pick: the average swinging strike of a sword against your armored breastplate or a heavy field point arrow traveling 300 fps. Go for the sword. Much greater chance of a deflected glancing blow.

You guys are very correct about the Dragonborn. I never thought of that and neither did the developers. I would guess the fatigue factors would be in inverse proportion to the skill level. At 100  it would be an entirely irrelevant issue.

The ultimate example of archer fitness was Genghis Khans horde. Bows up to 200+ #. Laminated short bulky monstrosities.

[Falion]

I'd say the top 5% is stretching things, but I was an extremely good bowman 25 years ago...that and martial arts is all I've ever really done well Sniffles. If I wasn't training on the mat ( still do ), or flinging arrows, I was working or sleeping. Perhaps 80 seconds may be a bit generous, but the point is, that stamina drain really depends entirely on the physical capabilities and the discipline of the archer, be it male or female.

As far as a 200 pound bow, I could never have even have pulled such a bow back, not even in the best of times. I'd have gotten me a hernia for sure! Such a feat is just totally mind boggling, but I bet the Dragonborn could do it, regardless of gender.

[Sniffles]

What G Khan had going defied description. No wonder he did so well. And he didn't have just a few top flight archers but tens of thousands armed with bows completely beyond the average military bowmans abilities.

Yes, your training explains your bow skills. Far beyond what I could do when I was at my best. While a compound bow has leveled the playing field a lot, women have less time as a rule to get the shot in, unless working well down into the peak capability envelope. With let off down to 20# I could go against you all day long.

[wotan]

200 draw pound bow? You got to be kidding! The best English archers - who had trained 20+ years - could use 130 draw pound long bows.
A weapon with a 200 draw pound draw is a crossbow and that has to be pulled with a crank or by using both arms while securing the crossbow with your foot.
The Mongol hordes used composite short bows. I doubt any of those had a pull over draw 100 pounds.

[Sniffles]

Apr 26, 2014 20:01:22 GMT wotan said:

200 draw pound bow? You got to be kidding! The best English archers - who had trained 20+ years - could use 130 draw pound long bows.
A weapon with a 200 draw pound draw is a crossbow and that has to be pulled with a crank or by using both arms while securing the crossbow with your foot.
The Mongol hordes used composite short bows. I doubt any of those had a pull over draw 100 pounds.

Way over 100. Many records of competitions where shooting distance was over 500 feet. Several reliable records of over 200 meters. Their bows were vastly superior to the European long bow, laminated and using bamboo which has a far greater tensile strength and memory. Of note, those bows couldn't be drawn using the fingers technique. Thumb only was required.

[Falion]

Wotan, you've now got my curiosity entirely raised up, as I'm not much of a scholar concerning GK, so I was taking Sniffles info on face value, no need to think that it wasn't accurate. You are, however correct, that a 200 pound draw weight is inconceivable. You'd have to be absolutely a HULK or BE THE HULK to pull such a bow back. A crank or some kind of mechanical assistance would be more likely, how in the heck could someone even pull something like that back, never mind holding it long enough to shoot it accurately!??!