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Post by naramoore on Jan 5, 2017 23:11:48 GMT
So I have an issue, which I can work around, and was wondering if this is normal.
I have assigned Lydia to follow Vilja leaving my vanilla slot open for another character. So far so good. I am doing the Civil War Quest as a Stormcloak. When I go into a Stormcloak camp Lydia is treated as a hostile. ?Wrong faction? After a couple of warnings the Stormcloaks attack Lydia, my band kills the attackers and we proceed. New Stromcloak warn Lydia to leave and the cycle starts over till the camp is cleared low level Stormcloaks. I can then proceed to pick up my new mission from the general, who obviously has not taken part in any of the fighting.
I don't have a game setup to test this in Skyrim Classic.
Is this normal? SSE behavior? Something screwed up on my end?
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 6, 2017 6:04:33 GMT
Screwed up. In a faction hostile to Stormcloaks or glitched so she appears hostile to them. Have her stop following Vilja then follow the PC and see if that helps.
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Post by amgepo on Jan 6, 2017 13:19:45 GMT
Taking a look at Vilja in old Skyrim, I see there is no faction relation that should cause this. Maybe they screwed this in Skyrim SE, or could be something on your end and not necessarily save corruption, could be a mod having edited more that it should.
The first thing I would look at would be anything altering Lydia (mods altering looks as example, are really prone to altering all kind of records), but maybe the factions she belongs to are the ones that have been modified.
A crazy idea I have. She has the Whiterun and Whiterun crime factions. Could a mod you have installed have made either of those factions enemy to stormcloaks faction via a script if you have played the siege of Whiterun on the imperial side?
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 6, 2017 13:35:54 GMT
Right. Lydia is vanilla generic so any mod that affects generic NPCs should be suspect like Amgepo said. That could easily turn into a needle in a haystack. You could narrow the search down. Try a different housecarl follower in the same position following Vilja. If still hostile, the generic NPCs have been modified. If not hostile, Whiterun specific factions or scripted events need to be examined.
Use a true generic like Jordis for the test and not one like Mjoll who has unique scripts.
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Post by naramoore on Jan 6, 2017 16:49:21 GMT
Run some tests this evening. Could be any of the above. I do have Lydia looks mod. (A suspect) Have done the Battle of Whiterun (On the Stormcloak side)
Kharjo is currently holding my vanilla slot. Can switch him in. I can lay hold of Valdimar easily as a housecarl I am ignoring
Thanks for the suggestions
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 6, 2017 21:33:10 GMT
Run some tests this evening. Could be any of the above. I do have Lydia looks mod. (A suspect) Have done the Battle of Whiterun (On the Stormcloak side) Kharjo is currently holding my vanilla slot. Can switch him in. I can lay hold of Valdimar easily as a housecarl I am ignoring Thanks for the suggestions Valdimar would be a good test. Kharjo, no. Completely different factions and is uniquely scripted. If the Stroncloaks acted hostile to him it could be for entirely different reasons. You definitely want to avoid a recruit or potential recruit of The Blades for the test. That throws an entirely different colored rat into the soup. Remember, you are sleuthing for unforeseen conflicts from either scripts or faction flags.
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Post by naramoore on Jan 7, 2017 5:13:48 GMT
As Vilja would say "Interesting"
SSE Kharjo all conditions: Passive Lydia under my control: Passive Lydia under Vilja's control: Hostile Without Lydia appearance mod (deactivated): Hostile Without Lydia appearance mod (removed): Hostile Lydia not under any control (dismissed): Hostile Valdimar under my control: Passive Valdimar out of control or under Vilja's Control: Hostile
Classic Skyrim. Went to my saved OR and joined Stormcloaks picked up Iona and Lydia Set stage through first Stormcloak quest so oath was taken. Fast traveled to a Stormcloak camp. No hostilities with Iona or Lydia Tried under my control, as free agents and under Vilja's control.
SSE So when they are under my control some faction is changed (my guess) and they are welcome in the Stormcloak camp. When not under my control the Stormcloaks are hostile to them. Putting them under Vilja's control does not change the faction and the camp is still hostile.
Classic Skyrim No hostilities.
Caveat Both heavily moded games. Similar but not identical test situations Nothing that I know of that messes with factions.
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Post by amgepo on Jan 7, 2017 13:14:38 GMT
The part about no fighting when they follow you is not surprising. When a NPC is following you, they will have the same faction reaction you would have, regardless of their faction reactions. You could have a bandit follower going with you without any fight with guards.
Let's test a bit furhter. We can assign to Kharjo, lidia's faction's one by one and see how stormcloaks react to the change.
First, we will assign him HousecarlWhiterunCrimeFaction: -Select Kharjo in the console, then type Setfactinorank 10336E 0 -fast travel to a place where you can find stormcloaks, with Kharjo and onnly Kharjo following Vilja. -after testing if there is a fight, fast travel to another area and remove the faction by selecting him in the console and typing: Setfactinorank 10336E -2
Now, try the same with the other lydia's factions Kharjo lacks: PlayerFaction: DB1 PlayerHousecarlFaction: A2C8D PotentialMarriageFaction: 19809 TownWhiterunFaction: 28172
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 7, 2017 20:35:55 GMT
I'm going to confess that I was waiting for you to type that, Amgepo. I considered it and knew I'd screw it up. The biggest problem as I see it is if the factions changes don't have any effect.
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Post by naramoore on Jan 8, 2017 2:57:21 GMT
No changes in behavior
kharjo Setfactionrank 10336E 0 : Passive HousecarlWhiterunCrimeFaction setfactionrank db1 0 : Passive PlayerFaction setfactionrank a2c8d 0 : Passive PlayerHousecarlFaction setfactionrank 190809 0 : Passive PotentialMarriageFaction setfactionrank 28172 0 : Passive TownWhiterunFaction
Used xedit to set Lydia's factions to match Kharjo's : Hostile Used xedit to set Kharjo's factions to match Lydias : Passive
Setting as set through the Console
Lydia (PRID A2C94) Faction Ranks before hostile attacks with no modifications PlayerFaction [FACT:00000DB1] 0 PotentialMarriageFaction [FACT:00019809] 0 TownWhiterunFaction [FACT:00028172] 0 PotentialFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84D] 0 CurrentFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84E] 0 PlayerHousecarlFaction [FACT:000A2C8D] 0 HousecarlWhiterunCrimeFaction [FACT:0010336E] 0 CrimeFactionSons 00028849 -2 CWSonsFaction 0002BF9B -2
Kharjo (PRID CD92d) faction Ranks before and after PlayerFaction [FACT:00000DB1] -2 -> 0 PotentialMarriageFaction [FACT:00019809] -2 -> 0 TownWhiterunFaction [FACT:00028172] -2 -> 0 PotentialFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84D] 0 CurrentFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84E] -2 -> 0 PlayerHousecarlFaction [FACT:000A2C8D] -2 -> 0 HousecarlWhiterunCrimeFaction [FACT:0010336E] 0 CrimeFactionSons 00028849 -2 CWSonsFaction 0002BF9B -2
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 8, 2017 7:12:34 GMT
No changes = not faction related. Pr the Stormcloak factions got weirded out. Maybe get Amgepo to tell you that trick how to rebuild an NPC to reset everything to vanilla?
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Post by amgepo on Jan 8, 2017 12:47:01 GMT
Ok, Another two test:
1st one: -Let's see if Lydia has been includded in PlayerWerewolfFaction, select her in the console and type getfactionrank 91822 -a negative number means she is not in that faction, 0 or more means she is. -do the same with VampirePCFaction: C4DE0, DragonFaction: 32D9C and CWImperialFactionNPC 1C9FC
2st one (a positive in the previous test, didn't mean this other test is not needed, maybe there is more than a single cause): Let's see if Lydia has been added to a new faction enemy of CrimeFactionSons or CrimeFactionSons -have Lydia in tow of Vilja -select a random bystander that is not in whiterun in the console -add it to Crimefactionsons typing in the console: SetFactionRank 28849 0 -Once the combat has started, or after a while if it didn't start, select the bystander again if you have unselected it for whichever reason -type in the console SetFactionRank 28849 -2 -if combat has started, select each combatant, player incluldded in the console and type StopCombatAlarmOnActor -same thing with CWSonsFaction, now, besides not being in whiterun, ensure there are not imperial soldiers or guards nearby -select the bystander in the console and type: SetFactionRank 1C9FD 0 -Once the combat has started, or after a while if it didn't start, select the bystander again if you have unselected it for whichever reason -type in the console SetFactionRank 28849 -2 -if combat has started, select each combatant, player incluldded in the console and type StopCombatAlarmOnActor
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Post by naramoore on Jan 8, 2017 19:59:57 GMT
Test 1 Lydia (PRID A2C94) Faction Ranks before hostile attacks with no modifications PlayerFaction [FACT:00000DB1] 0 PotentialMarriageFaction [FACT:00019809] 0 TownWhiterunFaction [FACT:00028172] 0 PotentialFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84D] 0 CurrentFollowerFaction [FACT:0005C84E] 0 PlayerHousecarlFaction [FACT:000A2C8D] 0 HousecarlWhiterunCrimeFaction [FACT:0010336E] 0 CrimeFactionSons 00028849 -2 CWSonsFaction 0002BF9B -2 --------------------------- VampirePCFaction: C4DE0 -2 DragonFaction: 32D9C -2 PlayerWerewolfFaction: 91822 -2 CWImperialFactionNPC 1C9FC -2 CWSonsFactionNPC 1C9FD -2
Test 2 Done in Sorli's House Bystander Sirgar (PRID 1aa59) CrimeFactionSons 00028849 -2 -> 0 Passive CWSonsFaction 0002BF9B -2 -> 0 Passive CWImperialFactionNPC 1C9FC -2 -> 0 Passive CWSonsFactionNPC 1C9FD -2 -> 0 Passive
Test 3 Fast travel to a different Stormcloak camp: Problem continues
Test 4 Remove Civil War Aftermath.esp and move to unspawned Stormclock camp: problem continues
Test 5 Fast travel to Windhelm to test if other stromclock gaurds are triggered: Not
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Post by amgepo on Jan 9, 2017 10:31:58 GMT
I see four possibilities here, new factions hating eachother has been added both to Stormcloaks and housecarls, a relationship items has been added between housecarls and individual NPCs on camps one by one (could be a single NPC in each camp you are getting this oddness in), a script is causing the combat between theese NPCs each time you go to those camps, or something is going really wrong and is altering how things works in the game.
What I will suggest will fix the problem if the first two possibilities and maybe the third one are causing this. You need to create a patch (I can't do it myself, not having Skyrim SE version. Despite knowing you already created a patch between Frostfal and a clothing mod, I'll add detailed instructions as it always gives confidence which avoids errors ) -Open this mod in SE version of TesVedit -select the faction named AAEMFollowerFollowingVilja, right click it and choose "copy as override into...". -check the "new file" checkbox and click on "Ok", then name the patch as you wish. -select the AAEMFollowerFollowingVilja faction in the newly created patch instead of in EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp -look for the greyed out "relations" record right click it and select "add" -in the faction subrecord of the new relation, select CWSonsFactionNPC. -in the "groupCombatReaction" subrecord, select Friend. -now you can close TesVEdit. When you do that, ensure in the popping up dialoguebox that the new patch has the checkbox selected and if there is another mod with a checkbox, unselect it, then push "Ok". -Check the new patch in whichever utility you use to manage your load order.
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Post by naramoore on Jan 9, 2017 16:53:13 GMT
Can do.
So last night I had a theory, and we all know what theories are worth. It was based on the fact that I use Realistic Needs and Diseases and at one point I got disease sleeping in the area of a Stormcloak camp. I am wondering if the Stormcloak camps are some how being miss identified as bandit or a bandit faction is involved. It seems more likely that RND miss identifies Stormcloak camps as bandit camps and has nothing to do with the issue we have been looking at, but was a thought.
BanditAllyFaction 000E0CD9 BanditFaction 0001BCC0
I see that KhajiitCaravanFaction 000EB091 is friend of BanditFaction and that would protect kharjo. I might try adding that and/or BanditFriendFaction 00044EF6
Then if I don't see something interesting do the patch.
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