|
Post by graykin on May 20, 2016 1:30:24 GMT
"Well Sis..." sighed the Elder twin, "Do you want to row or bail this time?". "I don't know!" the Younger twin replied, "Hmm... maybe I should row?" she continued on reflection, "That last boat we were all in, I barely kept us floating! Remember?" she asked. "Good idea!" chuckled her sister, "I do recall how the Dovahkiin started yelling and swearing about getting wet and how cold the water was!". They both started chortling over that memory until the Dovahkiin glared at them suspiciously!
|
|
|
Post by graykin on May 25, 2016 2:07:33 GMT
Standing stoically in the ice cold water, the Dovahkiin waited patiently for the Twins to board the small craft and begin their journey, wondering what the hold up could possible be, this time! "Psst!" the Younger Twin whispered to her Sister, "Do you remember who had the bucket last?" she said in a concerned breath. "Oh-oh... " the Older Twin replied, "I think we left it behind at our campsite!" her voice rising slightly in alarm! "Milk drinking bucket!" the Younger twin responded vehemently, "I give him 6 more seconds before that cold water penetrates his boots and the yelling begins!" she sighed resignedly.
|
|
|
Post by graykin on May 27, 2016 19:37:26 GMT
While the Dovahkiin sat on the dock and dutifully emptied the ice cold water out from his boots, the Twins were struggling with some pangs of conscience over their blaming him for losing the bucket at the last campsite! Sophia was a little distressed when she overheard their conversation but immediately knew better (with her personal survival at stake!), than to rat them out! "I don't know... I just don't!" the Younger Twin said earnestly to her Sister, "I suppose you're right that it's better for his health that we keep him calmer," She conceded at last! "Thank you Sis!" the Older Twin spoke gratefully, "We need him sharp and unfettered for what's up ahead!" she continued, "I'm not trying to deceive him, just to keep him more settled down until we reach our base camp by suppertime!" Flashing a grin in a conspiratorial manner, she couldn't help but giggle as she bent slightly closer to her Sister and added in a low voice, "we both can surely make it up to him this evening!", catching her Younger Twin off guard and forcing her to stifle her giggle as the Dovahkiin looked over in curiosity!
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 1, 2016 6:31:00 GMT
"So you do understand," the Elder Twin spoke out in her heartfelt manner, "we were both only concerned about how tired you've been recently and just didn't want you to get upset!" she finished sincerely. Graykin nodded slightly, realizing the concern behind her words. "Great!" Vilja continued, "then let's all retire early tonight sweetheart!" she said gazing into his eyes hopefully. "We DO both love you, you know!" the Younger Twin added with emotion! Graykin knew their intentions had been for the best from the start and started to relax realizing at last, that romance was going to be the theme for the evening.
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 4, 2016 20:45:42 GMT
The Company has developed a lot of confidence in following the Elder Vilja's strategies to lead them in battle successfully! It's become their S.O.P. to first check with her on who does what. Graykin has learned several things from this as well! 1. Stay out of their way! 2. Don't become a target and 3. Go through the weapons and stuff they pick up afterwards! (and dump the crap!) p.s. She's staring at a dragon on top of the next tower!
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 6, 2016 2:55:41 GMT
"Alright!" Graykin spoke in an intent low voice, "so... no one is going to tell me who started the fight then!" the Dovahkiin sighed for effect, even though he had a good idea whom it was as she wouldn't make eye contact with him. The Twins had arrived just as he did but they were obviously biased against the new companion, mostly he suspected because they had expressed a dislike for vampires on several occasions in the past. "Well, let's make one thing clear," he cleared his voice and began, "I know she's a vamp but I trust her! Why?" he looked at each member of the Company intently. "Because she gave up everything to join us! Also, she stands to lose the most, if we fail!". "And finally," he paused for a moment, "She didn't want me to tell you this but I feel I have to now. She made a sacred vow to me, to protect everyone here... no matter at what the cost to her!" he finished and looked around satisfied as he noticed the tears forming in everyone's eyes, knowing that he had reached them and they would bond without fail now! Graykin walked out of the room with confidence, giving them the time to begin developing a strong Sisterhood!
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 9, 2016 22:47:36 GMT
"What!" both Twins exclaimed in disbelief overhearing Serana's comment in a conversation with Graykin. "I'm telling you both the truth!" Serana reinstated, "I never lie! I don't have to!" she declared sincerely. "Even if I hadn't made such a sacred vow, I would have never considered either one of you for nourishment!". "Food! You mean!" the Elder Twin said sharply! "Whatever!" Serana replied tensely. "And just why should we believe you, again...?" the Younger Twin added morbidly. "Because my Dear... you both have way too much iron in your blood!" Serana stated. "And iron is fatal for you and that would mean..." the Elder twins voice trailed off. "Not exactly" Serana sighed. "Well... what would happen to you, if you drank our blood then?" the Younger Twin's curiosity got the better of her. "If you must know..." Serana answered reluctantly. "Yes! yes!" both Twins replied eagerly. "It would give me terrible gas!" Serana concluded with dead seriousness! At the outraged look of the Twins faces, Graykin fell to the floor, (knowing it was going to cost him big time later!) helplessly trying to stifle his laughter.
|
|
|
Post by zedtsayid on Jun 10, 2016 14:57:42 GMT
"Whats that smell? Is that you?"
|
|
|
Post by wotan on Jun 10, 2016 16:34:21 GMT
Someone stepped in doodoo and you can't blame it on the dog. As Thorald Gray-Mane says ever so often in my game: What did I just step in?
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 11, 2016 20:17:46 GMT
With a sinking feeling in the pit of his stomach, Graykin tried to explain why he had laughed the other evening, at what Serana had told the Twins. From the look on the Elder Viljas face it wasn't going so well! Mentally groaning inside as he calculated the possible weeks of extra camp duties; cooking, chopping firewood and cutting up all the game he hunted. Not even mentioning any of the shopping he would be required to do, buying new shoes, dresses and 'gulp' jewelry! He was sorely tempted to throw himself on their mercy and plead temporary insanity! But gathering himself together, he sternly rebuked this thought and turning to face her, he spoke, "I am not surprised that you both have too much iron in your blood, considering how fierce you are in battle!" knowing that honest and direct, was the only course to take, he continued, "but I laughed not at the both of you, but because Seranas answer took me by surprise! If you consider it, it's actually a compliment that even your blood itself, would cause some harm to your foes!" he smiled at both twins affectionately, gladly noticing that their gazes had started to soften. Whew!
|
|
|
Post by zedtsayid on Jun 11, 2016 20:48:02 GMT
Nice save definitely a 9.8
|
|
|
Post by Sniffles on Jun 15, 2016 22:33:54 GMT
Graykin, since you are the resident expert on multiple followers, could I ask some pointers and suggestions from you?
Background: Restarting Skyrim with a quite high level character - so I don't have to fuss with developing the PC and quite a lot of the trivial side track quests have been done. I chose an old save where I only had one follower, Vilja, and had just recovered the bottle for her. Fresh start, playing Skyrim a completely new way. Follower-companion centric. The entire plan is to get the most out of each follower, undertake any quests they have, and further each one's development.
After a little trial and error I have settled on Mrissi, Aela with expanded dialogue - she has a lot of interaction with Vilja and with the enhanced monsters the firepower is mandatory. Then Cerwiden, Arissa, Viconia - more firepower and arrow fodder, and Sophia. Each has her own venue and dialogue. We are going to Riften now to collect Inigo.
It is very nice that they have chosen their own pecking order with Vilja in front, and Cerwiden is able to be heard from near the back of the line. Sophia is way back there so her incessant chatter isn't a bother. So far so good.
The major concern is missing dialogue and character development. While they are in the just getting to know the PC phase, it becomes obvious things are going to get complex fast. Nearly all have demands that the PC must meet, and I am afraid if some demands aren't met in a timely manner the quest lines will get trashed and/or the development arrested. I am constantly stopping and doing a head count, walking for them to catch up, making a save every few minutes and backing up to that save if there is any hint that I might have missed something. I've got 6 playing hours in trying to get from Lakeview to Riften and have barely made it into the rift. With our first dragon attack as a full group there was all sorts of dialogue missed. A foreshadow of things to come no doubt. That consumed nearly an hour reverting to saves, walking, doubling back and checking on them.
So problem 1 is just giving each the individual attention required for development. Problem 2 is exemplified when a couple of trolls were encountered. The fight only lasted a couple of seconds but everyone had something to say and stepped on each others dialogue. Problem 3 is certain areas, dungeons and cities as example, where things get extremely complex while coming all at once. How in heck do you keep it all straight and make sure each gets the required attention? Problem 4 is parking, having them wait. How can I tell which will calmly wait forever, which will get bored and wander off, which will abort their storyline if they have waited too long and any other pitfalls? Any rules of thumb you follow? Next is saves. How do you manage them? Do you do a lot? Have certain times, or some protocol? Or end up with 30 or 40 saves after a few hours of gameplay?
Any other tips, hints and suggestions?
(I think taking the whole crowd into Riften to collect Inigo then into Eldergleam for Vilja is going to give me a solid hint of the potential problems that will arise.)
Oh yes. I am not going to use any follower mods, not going to ask followers to follow Vilja (which arrests some development lines) and not going to do any behavior micro-managing. As close to vanilla as possible is the plan unless some setting would greatly enhance the follower interaction. On a dark and sordid note, I think all develop a degree of personal relationship with the PC and I have no clue what is going to come down there but want their full storyline if at all possible, including marriages. I've got Squishy working on the CK to get them to ignore the already married flag, along with a few comments from her along the lines of "You're nuts! The PC will become neurotic! and so on." Some suggestions there would be very very much appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 16, 2016 5:52:25 GMT
ahh... ok, I'll try to help! First, it's taken me 3 plus years to get to where I am now (where ever the heck that is!)so every time I would try out a new companion or strategy I would save, sometimes in several different locations, before and or after adding equipment and also before changing any variables like following behavior etc... Adding one NPC at a time and if they have one doing at least the main quest to improve, enhance and expand their interactions with my character and the other companions. I have broken some quest lines and dumped, flushed and restarted on at least a half dozen times. I periodically check for any updates or add ons with all the NPC's I have kept. That has made a difference for sure! I have also checked out various mods (yes, some from the infamous lab!) but it has been a challenge to wipe, clean and remove any that didn't improve the interactions between the 'Company' which was of a prime importance to me to accomplish. However, there has been some successes as well! One of the first usable mods was called 'puppet master' (or something close to that!), there was a bunch of undesirable functions included but I was able to remove or uncheck those (not being judgemental but just nothing that I was personally interested in). The two aspects that I found very usable were, for the twins, a actual inventory of what each one had (instead of the combined inventory that I had initially) and the other issue with them of sharing their command structure so when I asked one to follow the other one would not (this factored into everything they did). Using puppet master I could ask one normally and the other with the p.m. request to do the same thing and it worked! I have nothing to compare to with anyone else on how their game dynamics might be different than mine but it does seem to be quite a variable spectrum of possible interactions that can occur at any point in my game and I have absolutely no control over what can and does unfold at each new start up! It is rare though, when it's unusually appropriate behavior or something I have never seen before (some sophisticated dialogues between them have emerged though! ) . I'm still hearing the Twins mostly and the others once in a while say something new and/or act in a original manner. Lets see, giving them all just so-so weapons, having half follow the Elder Twin and the other half follow me, where possible, have some as tanks primarily, some archers (melee vs ranged options) and using the modifiers in p.m. on aggression levels, health strategies (at what % to flee etc..) when in camp, getting them all into relax mode and using the group summon, group follow commands in the puppet master spells, all helps create a consistently unified behavior among them. Quest sites have had several problems, if a spell one NPC uses hits another, they have briefly fought over it, if one of the Viljas is hogging too much action, I have gotten her to follow at a greater distance, that's helped. Staying out of the way helps too! Parking, I remember using a mod that enhanced the NPC's idle time to cycle all their actions, cleaning, cooking, reading, potion making and sleeping but I don't remember the name of it. Sophia is the one who will wander off and actually go looking for me after a while out of the bunch. I have several homes and may cycle a few of them like Lydia in one on rest mode. I have approx. 20 saves and go through them to weed out any dead ends or ones that are the beginning of successful runs where I have several more downstream saved. Finally, I spend most of my time with them just wandering around (like I do in real life ) but just got the vampire expansion so have that quest to do at last! I run into small mysteries and request for help here and there as I check out areas I haven't been in yet (actually only the new expansion and the modded towns by Joop? something or other is all that's left for me now.). Sorry! I don't think this has been much help! I usually run on intuition.
|
|
|
Post by Sniffles on Jun 16, 2016 8:29:30 GMT
Thanks very much! I've downloaded Puppeteer Master which is waiting in the wings. A little too much micro managing for my tastes but am keeping it in reserve. Got lots to consider and think about now. I'm using the tweaked DOS commands and sending the save games to a 500GB storage drive so lots and lots of labeled console saves. Looks like I'll be micromanaging how I play the PC instead! Already discovered one problem: it takes a much better computer than I got to take 8 followers into the Bee and Barb. Probably talking 32GB of memory and an I7.
|
|
|
Post by graykin on Jun 16, 2016 16:38:36 GMT
Glad you found some of it useful! I'm using Vista, the 64 bit version with a quad core 2400 speed and 8 gigs of ram. An Nvidia 6550 video card and I use an external SD hard drive and update it also! I minimize the Puppeteer mod to just behavior options for waiting or following, say I don't want any of them to die, inventory control, how far to go when fighting and to summon them. I uncheck everything else on my Mod Config menu (have to go through Finis and Silverlock's extra or expanded mod.) I have had the best success when using 'Loot' to do mod order and clean dirty plugins.
|
|