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Post by fore on Sept 11, 2014 19:48:02 GMT
Great to see you here Fore. Impressive to have two of the legends of modding chatting. It would be great to see more animations for Vilja and Emma's list is perfect for how young woman acts. Hope you can do at least half of her Santa wish list. I would add Vilja angry, like really angry. Especially when the player does something stupid. The action would be her expressing her anger, arms up in the air and then looking away with arms crossed, totally pissed with her partner. That is part of reality for a real woman, eh! Unfortunately I have to disappoint you in two ways. I will not make these animations. I already told Emma that I'm a real lousy animator. I have never uploaded any animation I've done from scratch. They were either existing animations I modified by with scripts, or I took animations from other modders from which I had permission. I only want to help to show ways how custom animations can be added. And maybe lure one ore two animators I had talked to in the past. And second, facial animations are no real animations, and therefore not supported by FNIS.
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Post by fore on Sept 11, 2014 19:55:46 GMT
I very much like Emma's list. Incidentally, not only is the hug animation very short, but the characters are virtually flung together beforehand. It would be nice to see a more natural coming together. This is a general shortcoming for paired animation. That would need some additional programming, making one character walk to the other before the actual hugging starts.
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Post by fore on Sept 11, 2014 20:25:51 GMT
Hi Fore . What a lovely idea! I feel like a kid making a wishing list for Santa. And, as you know, wishing lists to Santa are allowed to be totally unreasonable, so I'll just write down what comes into my head. It may be that I write something that already exists in the vanilla game; it's my working hours right now, so no time to be in the ck. I make a list and then edit the post as I come up with more... - kissing animation (obviously) - animation to sit on player's lap - hide the face in her hands (embarrassed or crying) - playing custom instruments (Jet has explained this above) - alternate dances (obviously) - slower hug animation - the existing one is so short that it more reminds of a teenager who feels obliged to hug his parents. - wave to the player to come to her - giggling with hand over mouth - making a piruette - touching her ear/hair/cheek the way girls do - stretching out the hand to touch the player's cheek - the kissing and hugging animations are really demanding and we would need someone skilled to do this. Paired animations are always tricky due to the different scales of the actors. It's incredibly hard to find the lips of the one vis a vis. The kissing animation mod that was withdrawn from Nexus(although or because it was no merged paired animation) needed a manual adjustment before it worked on one specific couple. Stretching out the hand or even walking hand in hand is also very challenging. - I think we can get Vilja to sit on the player's lap already now. Of course there will be a lot of clipping due to the different chairs, but it could work. Just move an invisible chair on the player's lap when he is sitting, turn it 90° and most probable Vilja will automatically sit on the player's lap. - for playing a custom instrument there is already a mod with an realistic lute as animobject. www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/34110/?As I said already there are also eating animations with sweetrolls etc. - waving at the player to come, that we have already in the game and I used it for Vilja's dancing on the table. "Come join me. It's fun" she says and is waving at you. - making a pirhouette. Of course we can make her rotate when she is dancing. But this wouldn't like like a pas de deux. You bet me with the insight about paired animations. Totally right, except that for "stretching out the hand" there is a remote chance. One remark about sitting on lap. You probably think about vanilla chairs with standard animation. I don't think that will ever work sufficiently. At least for the NPC (I don't know about player, cause I never sit down) the sitting animation is actually a sequence or randomly selected different animations. So that will be clipping all over the way. With FNIS you can define custom furniture animations which you can control. And you can even define a sequence of different animations. So I would recommend to make the lap sit only on a custom furniture (like a field chair) with 2 markers, which the player and then Vilja can use.
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Post by fore on Sept 12, 2014 0:17:44 GMT
Fore, just go on and brawl with someone, Uthgerd the Unbroken in the Bannered Mare in Whiterun, or Hofgrir Horsecrusher at the Riften Stables... ...and lose the brawl. Now the player "owes" the game a death. Then use the paired vanilla hug animation. Amgepo made for Vilja a built-in hug-kill-bug fix. The fix does about the same what you do with the console commands. Set the player essential, kill him, remove the essential state. Found it. I was able to reproduce, and as I suspected did those killmove related AnimEvents cause the death. Removing the AnimEvents from the trigger lists did fix the problem, and don't seem to cause any other side-effect. Here is the 0_master.hkx which has this fix. I hope someone can verify. Note that this only works in 3rd person. I can certainly fix 1stp as well. As soon as this is verified. 0_master_3rdperson_fix_huga.7z (50.16 KB)
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Post by Wolf on Sept 12, 2014 8:21:20 GMT
Congratulations, Fore. You did it. The wicked Hug-Kill-Bug is dead. And kudos to Amgepo, who discovered the reason for the Hug-Kill-Bug and how to reproduce and fix it by script. A) First I had the pleasure of a charming date with Uthgerd the Unbroken, brawling to the hearts desire, and she hit me deep into the ground. For the game's sake I survived Uthgerd's proof of love, but from now on there was a curse on me. The intensive care of Hulda, the innkeeper of the Bannered Mare, with several pints of mead got me back on my legs again, but I owed the game my death. (Phhh..., that sounds like nonsense) My knees still shaking I went outside and hugged Ysolda (with the Free-Hugs-Mod). Immediately after the hug I dropped dead. The game loaded anew and I hugged Fralia Graymane..., and I died. I hugged men and children..., and was always killed instantly. So the Hug-Kill-Bug really works with the vanilla behavior files. B) Now I installed the new 0_master.hkx file I did the same as written above. And out of a sudden I could hug everyone. I hugged the whole of Whiterun. All this without any risk of physical damage. No stunning woman gave me a heart attack, no sweaty stench of a Whiterun guard made me kollaps and no children squeezed me to death anymore! I also tried with Vilja of course but since Amgepo's scripted Hug-Kill-Bug-Fix she has never send me to Oblivion in my game. C) Of course I had to check wether the paired kill moves are still working properly... ... and they do. I can confirm that the new 0_master behavior file sorts out the Hug-Kill-Bug. Brilliant!
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Post by Emma on Sept 12, 2014 14:51:32 GMT
Absolutely wonderful with a cure for the Hug-KillBug! Of course! Just go ahead. I made a longer reply in the WIP-forum. Yes, I thought that "hand holding" would be impossible, so I never suggested it. Wolf worked a little on getting the kiss-animation that was on nexus for a while to work; then it seemed there were some serious problems with ownership and permissions with that mod, so I think it is forever gone. Oh, yes, do I know about the lunacy in adapting animations like kissing animations to npc-sizes! I know, from the hard way, how tricky this has always been... Those who were around during the Morrowind days might remember this girl... Monica and I spent SO many days on this, not only with Laura, but also with all the npcs in the White Wolf of Lokken mod. But without The Other Felix' scripting, it would of course not have been possible at all.
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Post by fore on Sept 13, 2014 10:12:03 GMT
Yes, I thought that "hand holding" would be impossible, so I never suggested it. Wolf worked a little on getting the kiss-animation that was on nexus for a while to work; then it seemed there were some serious problems with ownership and permissions with that mod, so I think it is forever gone. Oh, yes, do I know about the lunacy in adapting animations like kissing animations to npc-sizes! I know, from the hard way, how tricky this has always been... Those who were around during the Morrowind days might remember this girl... Monica and I spent SO many days on this, not only with Laura, but also with all the npcs in the White Wolf of Lokken mod. But without The Other Felix' scripting, it would of course not have been possible at all. Oh, this is such a beautiful picture. No, we shouldn't give up on a kissing animation. Once we have a kissing animation, why not scale the characters to sizes that areused to designing the animation? The scaling can easily be hidden, and if a users doesn't use hillarious sizes for his characters, I think that can easily be hidden. And think about possibilities Skyrim can provide. For example the animated camera, going around the couple. Could be incredible. Hand holding while walking is really impossible. You could attach Vilja to the player, and let her execute walk animations as idles, while the player is moving her forward. But there are situations which look too strange. Like when the player is turning, or when they are close to a slope or a building. But what could maybe done is a handholding standing idle for the two. Similar to the touching the cheek. I have talked to Zartar in the Bethesda forum, and he has promised to look into the possibility of using hand IK. I could not get in touch with the animator, cause his message box is closed. I'm working on that. And finally here is the full fix for the death_after_hug bug, now including 1st person. I recommend that you add it to your next update. The xml files included are for documentation purposes only and can be removed. I will incorporate the 3rd person fix into FNIS as well. And I have offered the fix to the Unofficial Skyrim Patch team. Death_After_Hug_Fix.7z (153.17 KB)
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Post by Wolf on Sept 13, 2014 12:23:29 GMT
Thank you very much!
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Post by rhyls on Sept 13, 2014 19:42:53 GMT
Fores. I would like to see Vilja and player be able to ride and walk alongside each other, except when she leads. Also to Emma and co: is it possible that some dialogue can disappear because of a trigger event and a more intimate/general dialogue appear in the place of the missing dialogue I'mm thinking of changes such as "Your pretty etc" into perhaps (because they are closer together) "Your my beautiful Vilja" or similar. I feel that after such a length of time together they work more in harmony and she can/will suggest thing to to or places to go "Can we go to Whiterun I need to buy /see.....?" " Lets go and eat at....? later I think we should get some...for home
I see the whole thing as boy/girl meet, share lots of adventures, boy falls for her, she falls for him, she takes him to see the folks. They get married and she becomes a young woman who wants all the things women want, setting up a home together.Oviously they still have lots of adventuring to do. In other words a stronger role for Vilja. She puts up with a lot from Player I know it's not as idyllic as that really.
rhyls
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Post by Sniffles on Sept 13, 2014 22:28:41 GMT
I'm reminded of the hug animation in Jade Empire where the PC is about a foot and a half shorter than the NPC. You don't really notice the difference throughout the entire game until that spellbinding air hugging ?What The Heck? hug and kiss.
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Post by fore on Sept 14, 2014 0:07:27 GMT
Fores. I would like to see Vilja and player be able to ride and walk alongside each other, except when she leads. I don't think that is reasonably possible. It's not a behavior thing, because all movement (direction, speed) is controlled by the engine. Behaviors only provide the animation. It could be done by attaching either a dummy or vilja to the side of the player, and let Vilja follow the dummy. Or let her execute idles adequate to the player movement. However, in both cases it will look real weird when the player moves the dummy or Vilja into an obstacle.
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Post by Wolf on Sept 14, 2014 0:45:07 GMT
Oh, actually you can already walk side by side with Vilja. But I didn't use this feature yet on horseriding because horseriding is more affected by navmesh issues and obstacles as you can see in the riding side by side when Vilja is leading the way.
Just tell Vilja in Traveling together...\Regarding your following behavior\You may run ahead a bit if you wish. In this case Vilja will show a rather natural accompany behavior.
If you run she will after a while catch up with you and depending on what you or she is wearing even run ahead of you, or some time side by side. All this is quite dependent on the quality of the navmesh. If there are navmesh issus of the game, she will fall back again but always catch up again.
If you walk slowly Vilja will most of the time walk side by side with you. It's also a bit dependent on the weight of the outfit of both actors and of course it is dependent on obstacles. But I think this makes it even more natural.
The most natural following behavior for Vilja you will get if you activate simultanuously "You can look around a little when we are not moving", Vilja will use all crafting facilities, furniture, idle markers etc. just in the way Serana of the Dawnguard DLC does and give a very lively impression.
Of course you can't walk side by side with Vilja in interiors, caves and dungeons.
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Post by Wolf on Sept 14, 2014 0:54:31 GMT
By the way, the upcoming version will also include a Sitting-On-Lap "animation". Of course a genuine animation could be more reliable and even better looking, but that's what we got already:
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Post by blockhead on Sept 14, 2014 2:19:04 GMT
By the way, the upcoming version will also include a Sitting-On-Lap "animation". Of course a genuine animation could be more reliable and even better looking, but that's what we got already: In that picture, Vilja's hand seems to be located in such a way that someone with a perverted mind (like myself, lol) might get the, um, wrong impression? Could just be that particular camera angle?
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Post by jet4571 on Sept 14, 2014 6:10:04 GMT
Might want to also block that particular chair from being used by that animation... Where the other armrest?
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