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Post by fore on Sept 16, 2014 22:17:25 GMT
My recommendation is still to not allow a Sitting-On-Lap on every chair. There are many other chairs with even bigger arm rests, or chairs at tables, which you cannot avoid. Think about all those users reporting clipping issues. Instead why not using a tiny 2-seated custom chair which appears from nowhere when the player wants the hug. Less "immersion breaking" then all possible clipping issues. And to check if the area in front of the player is open, you can let her walk to an idle marker 30 units in front of the player. And if Vilja can't get there, or is at a height too different, then you know there is no space in front of the player, and refuse the hug. Of course you are right. But it is funny that one doesn't recognize clipping while playing the game. And there is a LOT of clipping in the vanilla game. But if it is a mod adding something, the players suddenly are VERY observant. But noone complained about actual holes in the farmcloth04 dress and a lot of clipping especiall when climbing stairs. The idea with the marker is a good one, but I guess you mean X-marker instead of an idle-marker. But then it starts to get more and more complicated. You must somehow get the reference of the chair that the player uses with Event OnSit and compare it with a formlist of prohibited chairs and if the chair is permitted for sitting on the lap you must still give Vilja a xth travel-package and check wether she can get close enough or not. And STILL there will be clipping with Vilja getting into position from the front and right entry point to her invisible chair. Even a custom animation will reduce, but not avoid clipping. There is an accidental charming coincidence if the player is sitting on a bar stool in the Bannered Mare that has more height than usual chairs. Of course the visuals can be ridiculous with Vilja even walking through the solid bar to get to her entry point and she will sit in the air lower than the player but you get the impression that she kisses his cheek and he has his right arm around her. Just a coincidence due the impferfection of placing an invisible chair. By the way..., moving object references into a cell can give very different results. Although a chair placed in the ground floor of Belethor's fits exactly, using the chair in the upper floor to move the invisble chair to results in the invisible chair hovering of the roof of the house with the identical height values set..., I LOVE this game. You're probably right with X-marker being the better solution. However, I have used idlemarkers all the time in my tests, since I had those idlemarkers already in my test. If moving a furniture to all possible places can be so troublesome, why not depart from furniture animations altogether? Run the player's sit animation as a simple idle, and add a (tiny) chair as animObject. This way you get the chair wherever you want.
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Post by fore on Sept 16, 2014 22:18:23 GMT
I like the idea of an animated camera very much. And it's easily done moving the camera on a defined path. But I don't own 3DSMax only Cinema4D that is not compatible with Skyrim import. Maybe we can get help from someone else?
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Post by fore on Sept 16, 2014 22:24:04 GMT
How does the flying camera that goes off after you have been idle work? Since I have seen any indication that this is handled in the behaviors, I assume that this is another form of the engines flying camera. This could also explain why this flying camera avoids running into obstacles. Something which certainly would not happen if this would be controlled by the animation's animation camera. But it doesn't help anyway. This type of flying camera cannot be purposely activated anyway. BTW: do you know Umpa's dances? They are are all modder's resource. Most of them are probably too much disco. But a few could maybe fit. You can play them all with FNIS Spells. C10 to C24 are all of Umpa's dances. For example look at the Snake Dance C24.
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Post by Seyheb on Sept 26, 2014 11:58:45 GMT
Having been observing the sitting-on-lap position during testing, I think she is positioned too far backwards in relation to the player's leg, i.e. she is overhanging the leg too much. If she was positioned in a more natural position, I believe potential clipping with chair arms would be much less.
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Post by Wolf on Sept 26, 2014 13:39:30 GMT
Having been observing the sitting-on-lap position during testing, I think she is positioned too far backwards in relation to the player's leg, i.e. she is overhanging the leg too much. If she was positioned in a more natural position, I believe potential clipping with chair arms would be much less. If I position Vilja more to the left side of the player, she has her legs inside the left leg of the player.
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Post by Seyheb on Sept 26, 2014 17:50:59 GMT
I should have guessed there might be a snag.
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Post by jet4571 on Sept 27, 2014 9:06:59 GMT
Maybe instead of a 90 degree angle to the player have her at 45 degrees so her butt is on one knee and her legs are angled so her knees are in front of the players. It would fit nicely with her sitting on a lap and watching what's going on in the room. Maybe less romantic but it is a position that would work and is still realistic and how a couple may do it, I know I have been a chair in that seating arrangement. Maybe more realistic than the 90 degree since she wont put her arm around the PC's neck/shoulders as would be the natural thing to do. She uses a normal sit position so the 45 degree will fit it better.
Snag? What snag?
*Edit Custom sit animation I would want is her sitting on the right leg with her left foot firmly on the floor and her right leg crossed over her left. PC's left knee sits in the V shape her legs create so she is nearly 45 degrees from the PC's direction. PC's right hand is resting on her right hip and she is leaning back with her left arm around the PC's shoulders and right hand resting on the PC's chest high enough to not clip breasts if the PC is female. Just below the left collar bone. Vilja is leaning back so her left shoulder is just above and forward of the PC's right shoulder. PC's left hand holds Vilja's left hand or rests on the PC's left leg.
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Post by fore on Sept 27, 2014 14:56:58 GMT
Maybe instead of a 90 degree angle to the player have her at 45 degrees so her butt is on one knee and her legs are angled so her knees are in front of the players. It would fit nicely with her sitting on a lap and watching what's going on in the room. Maybe less romantic but it is a position that would work and is still realistic and how a couple may do it, I know I have been a chair in that seating arrangement. Maybe more realistic than the 90 degree since she wont put her arm around the PC's neck/shoulders as would be the natural thing to do. She uses a normal sit position so the 45 degree will fit it better. Snag? What snag? *Edit Custom sit animation I would want is her sitting on the right leg with her left foot firmly on the floor and her right leg crossed over her left. PC's left knee sits in the V shape her legs create so she is nearly 45 degrees from the PC's direction. PC's right hand is resting on her right hip and she is leaning back with her left arm around the PC's shoulders and right hand resting on the PC's chest high enough to not clip breasts if the PC is female. Just below the left collar bone. Vilja is leaning back so her left shoulder is just above and forward of the PC's right shoulder. PC's left hand holds Vilja's left hand or rests on the PC's left leg. Unfortunately these things don't work with Skyrim. Of course, an animator could do such close animations. But it will only work for the the size of characters the animator has used for his work. Changing sizes or shapes will automatically lead to bad results.
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Post by jet4571 on Sept 27, 2014 20:30:23 GMT
That and the massive amount of clipping in Viljas legs as she sits with them crossed. The edit wasn't a suggestion just a position I think would look great.
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Post by Seyheb on Sept 27, 2014 21:28:16 GMT
I was going to say that sitting with crossed legs on a lap did sound rather awkward to me in any case. I was also going to say I guess the ideal would be to somehow make the player character put his/her knees together, which would allow the lap sitter to be adjusted better without clipping a leg or at least some chair arms, but I guess that may also be entering into the realm of close animations.
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Post by Seyheb on Oct 7, 2014 22:57:05 GMT
I've mentioned elsewhere that I have continued to try out Wolf's 'sit on lap' option, which I think it is a very worthwhile addition. I’m still finding lots of chairs, benches, etc. in all sorts of locations (e.g. player houses, inns, bandit camps, explorer camps, dungeone etc.) that she can use together with my character with a minimum of clipping or none, even on some chairs with arms. While doing so I've also been looking a bit more at what I suggested above. However, having not spotted the snag with my first suggestion regarding altering the position, in making the following suggestions I've tried to look at it with more care. As things are at the moment the player sits with his/her knees wide apart. Vilja sits on the player's right leg but overhangs this leg backwards so her legs don't clip with the player's left leg, as Wolf explained above. However this does cause clipping between her back and the arms of one common armchair in particular. Now if it was possible when Vilja sits down for the player's left leg (i.e. knee) to be moved over to alongside the player's right leg (leaving the right leg where it is) then I think Vilja could then be positioned so she sits on both of the player's legs (i.e. lap) with her own legs crossing over the player's left leg and clear of the player. By moving her more centrally this way I think she should them be fairly clear of the arms of chairs on both sides or at least clipping would be minimised. I also think the sitting position would look better.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 7, 2014 23:42:24 GMT
While you guys are rewriting evolutionary theory, could someone try to ad-dress Vilja's legs clipping in those elven gowns?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 5:35:53 GMT
While you guys are rewriting evolutionary theory, could someone try to ad-dress Vilja's legs clipping in those elven gowns? If you don't have anything constructive to say about what's being discussed, shut up. Flaming won't get you anywhere, and especially not in here.
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Post by Sniffles on Oct 8, 2014 9:21:28 GMT
While you guys are rewriting evolutionary theory, could someone try to ad-dress Vilja's legs clipping in those elven gowns? If you don't have anything constructive to say about what's being discussed, shut up. Flaming won't get you anywhere, and especially not in here. Please excuse my mildly flippant query and utter failure to make a pun on words. Since the issue has arisen on several occasions on this thread about clipping, I mentioned that Vilja in certain gowns has a similar problem. Speaking of problems, telling someone to 'shut up', be it in a face to face social environment, over the phone, by email or normal mail, or even on forums, is considered rude, ill-mannered, discourteous, uncivil, ill-behaved, disrespectful, churlish, curt, brusque, short, tactless, and undiplomatic. In a word, flaming. If you honestly feel, and aren't simply lacking sleep or suffering from shrinking testicle syndrome, or both, that I need being 'put in my place', there are sufficient words, phrases and so forth in the language to express yourself and desire in a polite and gracious manner. Thank you so much for giving this matter your attention. Non répondez s'il vous plaît. Merci.
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Post by jet4571 on Oct 8, 2014 9:41:18 GMT
While you guys are rewriting evolutionary theory, could someone try to ad-dress Vilja's legs clipping in those elven gowns? Cute. Didn't think we were rewriting anything but it does kinda fit. As for the outfits that's a different subject and requires a 3d modeler that's better than me to redo the vertices weighting to prevent the clipping. animations isn't the cause of clothing and armor clipping, it just shows bad vertices weighting. take a thigh for example, to not have clipping it needs to have the same vertices weighting as the leg or close enough since the vertices count in that area wil not be the same. Cheap and easy trick is to not have a body under the clothes but with nightgowns and dresses that will look odd.
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