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Post by marek0712 on Jan 7, 2015 3:53:45 GMT
Better Cities has children? I didn't know this. But there is another mod called something with city-life (Modems citylife??) that has shrunken adults as children. I haven't seen that one. I checked Eida. Are you sure it was her own house she couldn't get into? I would have guessed that she had a problem getting into Alva's home. She has a key, but I had not added her to the family faction. I have done so now. That might help. I'm going to double-check Eida, specially now that your mod is at the end of my load order. I have a mod that implements some changes and Lyra Rosentia was always one of my targets. EDIT: I visited Bruma again, it was my mod. As it is now, I have not added any fighting between kids, but some are practicing marksmanship. Of course I could try to do this; the difference compared to morrowind is that Oblivion has an active AI, so if kids have been fighting, they will "remember" this and might act weird later on. That should be doable to overcome with scripting, of course. I didn't know that those sparing animations could lead to lower disposition. =( EDIT: I've just checked the new update. The babies are great! I looked at the three you mentioned. I didn't check this. There's a detail in the Gilded Carafe. At night, the baby would be left alone or, is there a script that enables a second baby upstairs? The same would be good for Renoit. I also started giving gifts, but none of the kids were holding them. And one more detail, is it part of the mod having so many kids playing in the rain? It was raining hard and there were several of them outside. But I was in the Imperial City. When I visited the other places, it wasn't raining. I've got to sleep now... crap! I have to double-check what I wrote later.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 7, 2015 7:26:36 GMT
Thanks for the list. It is very useful!
I didn't check to see if I had the same experience as Marek regarding Eida. Next time I'm there I'll take a look.
Regarding the 'stuck' conversation animation, they don't always slowly wave a forearm/hand when they seem to be stuck. However they behave the same as two people having a normal conversation do in the game, only it is silent and they can be standing there still a number of game-hours later. I can bump into them and push them around. [edit - However, usually I can free things by speaking to one of them, but of course I'm not always running around speaking to everyone and also I may not see them if they are standing in another part of the town.]
Edit - P.S. I've been looking into this issue some more this morning. I've been able to reproduce it without the Children mod present and using an older saved game, which makes me even more convinced that it has nothing to do with the mod.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 7, 2015 14:16:18 GMT
Visited Cheydinhal:
The children were mostly dispersed around the town. All those spoken to responded well and their activities appeared normal. Outside I saw Arwoni ride up to the gate on Lightning and dismount before going inside. Lightning then made its own way to the stables though it halted at the yard gate.
There were no children seen around the swing and rocking horse.
However, I should spend a bit more time there.
Bruma (returned):
I returned to Bruma mainly to see if my experience regarding Eida would be the same as Marek's.
I saw more kids playing on the terrace this time.
I'd been to all the smaller towns by this time, including Bruma, and never seen any of the swings or rocking horses in use, However this time in the afternoon I found Alva sitting on the swing, eating. Later, after Alva had left, Eida Rosentia came and sat on the swing so I kept an eye on her. When the kids began to go home, I followed Eida. She went into the Jerall View Inn. Inside I found her sitting on a chair on the upstairs landing. After a while she came downstairs and sat at a table and began eating. Later she stood up and left the inn at around 8.15pm. She then walked to the Rosentia house and stood on the steps to the front door facing the door. She didn't go inside. I waited until after 9.pm.
Apart for the Market District I haven't visited the other districts in the Imperial City yet, Nor have I visited the inns listed yet.
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:03:55 GMT
That list of children is very helpful! Gosh, I totally forgot that there were extra pages. :-O My experience is a little slow since I'm playing 3 or 4 games at the same time. I visited Anvil today. As I said, the only "children buried problem" was with Marcus near the gate to the harbour. I should've taken a screenshot. I also started a fight. I hit one of the boys and he followed me. The other kids came to help ME. Then the whole town started pursuing the boy. I killed him with console commands and everybody was back to normal. I'm not sure how to handle this. I would make them with a very low confidence (like 10, 20 or 30, but, that's myself). Actually, I think all the citizens should have a lower confidence! And I haven't had any animation problems. Conversations are okay. Sometimes, I leave my character in a place and go to the kitchen or play Mario (I've bought a Super Nintendo). NPCs and kids talk near my character and I haven't seen anyone stuck. You started a fight and you hit one of the boys... and nothing happened? That's really not how it is supposed to be, and it's not what is happening in my game. Did you hit him only once? Did you use a spell or a weapon? Or maybe you sent a companion to attack him? I've tried to reproduce this several times. In my game, the kids will vanish instantly. One girl didn't vanish until the second hit, but then the next thing that was supposed to happen indeed happened: I lost my whole inventory and had to reload my old save. You're not supposed to be able to hit the kids and get away with that. Do you remember who he is, I have to try it with the same boy. Can someone else try and see if they can beat a kid without that it disappears and without that you soon loose your inventory? A lower confidence will mean that they will run to the guards as soon as their health goes under a certain percent. Now, their health will never go under a certain percent. And if it did, the guards will not help them anyway. I could add an onhit-package to make them run away, but there is this issue with flee-packages in oblivion that it never stops. So you can then just walk up to the kid and beat him to death. Lower their aggression to 0 only means that they will accept being beaten up without defending themselves. It's now at 5. I realize i have to do something more with this, I thought "if hit by player" was fully functional as it is in my game, but there is of course what to do if others hit the city children (children outside cities really HAVE to be able to defend themselves). I have to ponder on this further, I obviously have to do something more. Good that there are no animation problems . Seyheb thinks it is local in his game, let's hope that this is the case, but it is great if everyone check this up.
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:13:41 GMT
Thanks for the list. It is very useful! I didn't check to see if I had the same experience as Marek regarding Eida. Next time I'm there I'll take a look. Regarding the 'stuck' conversation animation, they don't always slowly wave a forearm/hand when they seem to be stuck. However they behave the same as two people having a normal conversation do in the game, only it is silent and they can be standing there still a number of game-hours later. I can bump into them and push them around. [edit - However, usually I can free things by speaking to one of them, but of course I'm not always running around speaking to everyone and also I may not see them if they are standing in another part of the town.] Edit - P.S. I've been looking into this issue some more this morning. I've been able to reproduce it without the Children mod present and using an older saved game, which makes me even more convinced that it has nothing to do with the mod. Are you using the companion mod Viconia? I remember now that I had this problem with her in Oblivion, and that it then happened to other npcs, too. (and, actually, I'm pretty sure that Collin reported the same problem with the Skyrim version of her). I'm not sure why this happened, I simply disabled the mod and the problem was gone, I didn't look into it further. There are two other companions by the same author, I don't know if possibly they did the same. And as I didn't investigate it, I'm not even sure if it really was this mod, just that the problem vanished. I think it was in the shared PM that someone else (Sniffles?) reported the same problem with Eida as Marek. Which makes me a bit concerned as the girl definitely has a key to the house. I have to look further at her.
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Post by marek0712 on Jan 7, 2015 17:17:53 GMT
I wish I could help you, Seyheb. The only thing I can think of is the "Reset Abomb Counter" from Wrye Bash, but you might probably have done it. With the list of children, I've decided to follow some in order to improve my testings. This morning I spent some time with Andytor. His Ai seems okay, I've just encountered three things that may be worth to report: Remier Renoit isn't sleeping in my game. I forgot to take a picture, but Andytor had problems sleeping. Everytime I went outside and came back, he was stood up, sleeping. Sometimes he went back to bed, others, he didn't. Two kids were also sharing this swing...
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:18:38 GMT
Better Cities has children? I didn't know this. But there is another mod called something with city-life (Modems citylife??) that has shrunken adults as children. I haven't seen that one. I checked Eida. Are you sure it was her own house she couldn't get into? I would have guessed that she had a problem getting into Alva's home. She has a key, but I had not added her to the family faction. I have done so now. That might help. I'm going to double-check Eida, specially now that your mod is at the end of my load order. I have a mod that implements some changes and Lyra Rosentia was always one of my targets. EDIT: I visited Bruma again, it was my mod. As it is now, I have not added any fighting between kids, but some are practicing marksmanship. Of course I could try to do this; the difference compared to morrowind is that Oblivion has an active AI, so if kids have been fighting, they will "remember" this and might act weird later on. That should be doable to overcome with scripting, of course. I didn't know that those sparing animations could lead to lower disposition. =( EDIT: I've just checked the new update. The babies are great! I looked at the three you mentioned. I didn't check this. There's a detail in the Gilded Carafe. At night, the baby would be left alone or, is there a script that enables a second baby upstairs? The same would be good for Renoit. I also started giving gifts, but none of the kids were holding them. And one more detail, is it part of the mod having so many kids playing in the rain? It was raining hard and there were several of them outside. But I was in the Imperial City. When I visited the other places, it wasn't raining. I've got to sleep now... crap! I have to double-check what I wrote later. From start, I actually didn't send the kids out in rain. Of course this meant there were never kids around in Leyawiin . But, kids do come out and play also in rain. Maybe I should change some of them to not come out, but making all of them stay at home as soon as it is raining seems a bit much. I have been thinking of disabling/enabling certain cradles during nighttime, and if there is a spot for them in the other house-section put a night-version there. But, if you are in the Gilded Canape during night, you are obviously breaking in. I.e. it's only "normal" for a thief to go there during nighttime, you are not spposed to be there (that's why I haven't already moved the baby over night). I'm not sure what sparring will lead to. Does anyone recall if there are npcs sparring anywhere in Oblivion, so that I can look at their setup? Not in the arena, they are using dummies. But I have a feeling I have seen it somewhere, at some point.
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:21:35 GMT
I wish I could help you, Seyheb. The only thing I can think of is the "Reset Abomb Counter" from Wrye Bash, but you might probably have done it. With the list of children, I've decided to follow some in order to improve my testings. This morning I spent some time with Andytor. His Ai seems okay, I've just encountered three things that may be worth to report: Remier Renoit isn't sleeping in my game. I forgot to take a picture, but Andytor had problems sleeping. Everytime I went outside and came back, he was stood up, sleeping. Sometimes he went back to bed, others, he didn't. Two kids were also sharing this swing... Oh dear... swing-sharing! I have ran into this in Anvil, I thought I had sorted it out by ensuring that they are only sitting at the swing one at a time (scheduled). But probably Andytor is in fact there in order to eat, not in order to use the swing. Hmm... I think Wolf will have to take a new look at the swing model and see why this happens. Weird with the sleeping - both of them do have slots where they should be able to sleep, Andytor has a bedroll that is enabled during nights - maybe the grown up altmer was using it?
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:23:58 GMT
Visited Cheydinhal: The children were mostly dispersed around the town. All those spoken to responded well and their activities appeared normal. Outside I saw Arwoni ride up to the gate on Lightning and dismount before going inside. Lightning then made its own way to the stables though it halted at the yard gate. There were no children seen around the swing and rocking horse. However, I should spend a bit more time there. Bruma (returned): I returned to Bruma mainly to see if my experience regarding Eida would be the same as Marek's. I saw more kids playing on the terrace this time. I'd been to all the smaller towns by this time, including Bruma, and never seen any of the swings or rocking horses in use, However this time in the afternoon I found Alva sitting on the swing, eating. Later, after Alva had left, Eida Rosentia came and sat on the swing so I kept an eye on her. When the kids began to go home, I followed Eida. She went into the Jerall View Inn. Inside I found her sitting on a chair on the upstairs landing. After a while she came downstairs and sat at a table and began eating. Later she stood up and left the inn at around 8.15pm. She then walked to the Rosentia house and stood on the steps to the front door facing the door. She didn't go inside. I waited until after 9.pm. Apart for the Market District I haven't visited the other districts in the Imperial City yet, Nor have I visited the inns listed yet. So here is the Eida problem again... I wonder if it is because her parents are still in Jerall View that she can't get inside. (That's why she eats there - her family does this, just like a family in Anvil eat in the inn).
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 17:27:00 GMT
EMMA TO-DO-LIST:
- think further on kids and city-combats DONE
- check sleeping for Renoit boy and Andytor DONE
- talk to Wolf regarding the swing - DONE
- check Eida's problem getting indoors. - DONE NEEDS TESTING
- check the animation packages for Marcus in Anvil - DONE
- give the children a clone of Terry's peace amulet DONE - didn't work out well
- change the names of orc children according to Strikers suggestion DONE
- change the "ink"-outfit - legs DONE
- try to improve hands on redguard smallgirl outfit
To-Do-list for testers:
- what happens if you hit children in your game?
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Post by marek0712 on Jan 7, 2015 17:42:15 GMT
Let me organize what I have to answer.
"Did you hit him only once? Did you use a spell or a weapon? Or maybe you sent a companion to attack him?"
Now that you're asking me this, I don't remember hitting him twice. If I'm not wrong, it might have been Marcus. I used my bare hands. The other kids followed him with weapons and spells. I'm going to check more and now that I found a new place to store my images, It'll be easier to show what's going on. The same for Andytor. Honditar was acting nice, only the boy was messy. I haven't lost my inventory, though.
"I'm not sure what sparring will lead to. Does anyone recall if there are npcs sparring anywhere in Oblivion, so that I can look at their setup? Not in the arena, they are using dummies. But I have a feeling I have seen it somewhere, at some point."
Most Fighters Guild have members do sparring. It's possible to have them without weapons.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 7, 2015 18:55:49 GMT
I've just been to Anvil to test hitting the children (that sounds really bad! ). First, I hit Lasseman once with a sword. He disappeared instantly, leaving a stain on the road. I then shot Joey with an arrow. Exactly the same thing happened, i.e. he disappeared instantly, leaving a stain on the road. I checked my inventory both times and it appeared to be intact. [edited] I then disarmed myself and hit Felinus Inventius with my fists. I'm not sure how many times I hit im at first but it was probably twice. I saw the message "Your attack has no effect". However Felinus immediately attacked me with a dagger and fire. Joey was passing and joined in and that started a fight between Joey and Vilja. Two passing NPCs then joined in on my side. No-one appeared to be gaining an advantage. I looked at my inventory which appeared to be intact, then saved the game. The fight hadn't finished when I left it to report here! While I was there (and before the fighting), Nina and Marcus arrived at the usual seat. Nina sat down and Marcus started to play hopscotch. However he was clipping right through the raised pavement and the stone seat dividers. His route led from directly in front of Nina and across to the left of the picture, where he turned round inside the stonework to return again. The shot is just as he had turned round. His feet appeared to be at the level of the adjoining roadway.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 7, 2015 19:02:28 GMT
Thanks for the list. It is very useful! I didn't check to see if I had the same experience as Marek regarding Eida. Next time I'm there I'll take a look. Regarding the 'stuck' conversation animation, they don't always slowly wave a forearm/hand when they seem to be stuck. However they behave the same as two people having a normal conversation do in the game, only it is silent and they can be standing there still a number of game-hours later. I can bump into them and push them around. [edit - However, usually I can free things by speaking to one of them, but of course I'm not always running around speaking to everyone and also I may not see them if they are standing in another part of the town.] Edit - P.S. I've been looking into this issue some more this morning. I've been able to reproduce it without the Children mod present and using an older saved game, which makes me even more convinced that it has nothing to do with the mod. Are you using the companion mod Viconia? I remember now that I had this problem with her in Oblivion, and that it then happened to other npcs, too. (and, actually, I'm pretty sure that Collin reported the same problem with the Skyrim version of her). I'm not sure why this happened, I simply disabled the mod and the problem was gone, I didn't look into it further. There are two other companions by the same author, I don't know if possibly they did the same. And as I didn't investigate it, I'm not even sure if it really was this mod, just that the problem vanished. I think it was in the shared PM that someone else (Sniffles?) reported the same problem with Eida as Marek. Which makes me a bit concerned as the girl definitely has a key to the house. I have to look further at her. I don't have Viconia installed or the author's other mods. However I do have some other companions and companion mods installed, not all of which are active. It has been so long since I played Oblivion until now that I can't remember everything about them, but I think it will be worth me looking into them in case one of them is in fact the cause.
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Post by firespark on Jan 7, 2015 19:47:25 GMT
hi i'm a new tester.
Andytor in Chorrol seems to be sitting on the benches near the large tree but seems to be abit floating above it. I got angry because i hate bugs.. and i got killed on my level 1 character.. they seem to be pretty tough ..(couldnt hit them either:)
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 20:30:30 GMT
Hi and welcome, Firespark, and thank you for the offer on the Bethesda board to help testing.
There is a problem with the sitting animation for children. If you use the regular sit animation, they will always be halfway inside the furniture because of their size. If you use this sit-animation that is for children specifically and you load a game where a child is already seated, it will be placed a bit above the seat. But if you move out of viewing distance and return, he should be correctly seated. This is one of the things that might be really hard to fully cure.
Yes, they are tough, in fact you shouldn't be able to injure them at all. they should either teleport away or take over your inventory if you try to kill them.
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