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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 20:34:23 GMT
I've just been to Anvil to test hitting the children (that sounds really bad! ). First, I hit Lasseman once with a sword. He disappeared instantly, leaving a stain on the road. I then shot Joey with an arrow. Exactly the same thing happened, i.e. he disappeared instantly, leaving a stain on the road. I checked my inventory both times and it appeared to be intact. [edited] I then disarmed myself and hit Felinus Inventius with my fists. I'm not sure how many times I hit im at first but it was probably twice. I saw the message "Your attack has no effect". However Felinus immediately attacked me with a dagger and fire. Joey was passing and joined in and that started a fight between Joey and Vilja. Two passing NPCs then joined in on my side. No-one appeared to be gaining an advantage. I looked at my inventory which appeared to be intact, then saved the game. The fight hadn't finished when I left it to report here! While I was there (and before the fighting), Nina and Marcus arrived at the usual seat. Nina sat down and Marcus started to play hopscotch. However he was clipping right through the raised pavement and the stone seat dividers. His route led from directly in front of Nina and across to the left of the picture, where he turned round inside the stonework to return again. The shot is just as he had turned round. His feet appeared to be at the level of the adjoining roadway. Alright, now I understand... it's when you are fistfighting that they won't teleport away. Of course... they won't use health points when you are fistfighting, they lose fatigue points. As their health isn't affected, they don't do what their script tells them to do if they get hit. I'll take a new look at this, now that I understand what is up. What Marcus is doing there is exactly what I want to avoid as much as possible. With the available animations, one can not fully avoid it, as there are no collision on the animations. In Marcus' case it really looks ugly (or funny, depending on how one sees it).
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 7, 2015 21:20:15 GMT
I'm not sure what sparring will lead to. Does anyone recall if there are npcs sparring anywhere in Oblivion, so that I can look at their setup? Not in the arena, they are using dummies. But I have a feeling I have seen it somewhere, at some point. Saliith and Branwen in the arena district spar.
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 21:50:26 GMT
Sparring worked the way I hope id didn't; it requires two heading x-markers and two npcs are waving swords at exactly this location. Not really fun.
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Post by firespark on Jan 7, 2015 22:16:49 GMT
In one of the fighters guild there are two sparring.. they just swing around. In fact you can remove one actor. Its a "use item" -> use object -> melee weapon. (i've added two soldiers to my module the other day)
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Post by Emma on Jan 7, 2015 22:29:05 GMT
Yes, exactly... that's what i found too, when I looked in the CS. It's no sparring, it is two heading Xmarkers and two npcs waving a sword. Works in a fighters guild, and I'm sure it also works in your mod, but it won't work the same way as I did it in Children of Morrowind, which the posters were refering to.
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Post by OldRPMDaddy on Jan 8, 2015 2:15:58 GMT
Went to Bruma to watch the children there. You probably know all about the "kid in the cobblestones" effect, where Geniini skips along and sinks into the street. She's the only one I saw do that -- is it to do with the elevation of the ground she's walking on? However, I must compliment you on the cartwheel animations (which I observed in Chorrol as well)! You never see a kid in Skyrim do that! I'll look at the children in some other places over the next couple days.
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Post by marek0712 on Jan 8, 2015 2:39:18 GMT
{{I then disarmed myself and hit Felinus Inventius with my fists. I'm not sure how many times I hit im at first but it was probably twice. I saw the message "Your attack has no effect". However Felinus immediately attacked me with a dagger and fire. Joey was passing and joined in and that started a fight between Joey and Vilja. Two passing NPCs then joined in on my side. No-one appeared to be gaining an advantage.}}
Nice! Now I got it! I was always hitting them with my fists too!! =D
If sparring is a problem, leave it a alone. ;-)
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 8, 2015 4:07:18 GMT
Sorry I've been tardy in reporting here Emma ... I'll continue with progress since my Nexus PM report. I think I've found part of the problem with some of the kids sleeping packages. I'll use Tun Maarus in Leyawiin as an example but I think it could affect others as well. The two beds available for both Tun Zeuus and Tun Maarus have two different ownerships one belongs to Tun Zeuus and one belongs to Leyawwin Dividing Line faction. Both Tuns belong to the Leyawiin Dividing Line faction but this allows Tun Zeuus to use either bed. If he gets to the Leyawiin Divided Line faction bed before Tun Maarus then Tun Maarus can't use the other bed, as it belongs exclusively to Tun Zeeus. Bradus kids and the mother's bed is a similar situation, and one must bunk in with the mom but can't. Won't necessarily be obvious to anyone but thieves and sneaky beta tester types though. I forgot to report to you on my Anvil testing that two of the girls had texture problems with their skin (looked like a typical body/clothing type mismatch to me). One was Loviesa (and that was really quite noticeable) and the other was the youngest girl at the Anvil stable (Joley if I recall correctly, and that wasn't nearly so noticeable, just the hands). I'm using HGEC (EVE including the cloth/armor replacer) and Roberts male (plus armor/clothes replacer) but I think Loviesa's outfit must be Roberts female or BAB or something similar. I also find Loviesa's and Joline's outfits a bit glaring to the eye compared to the closer to vanilla look of the other kid's outfits (and that dress that Joley and other kids with similar doesn't look good when they sit). In the three cities I've checked out (Anvil, Leyawiin and Skingrad) I have seen plenty of the animations through objects or sinking into the uneven ground effect. Not sure what can be done about that in general (some vanilla animations such as dances will do the same ... they just tend to more of a single spot animation). I have noticed some that occur in a predictable fashion though, that perhaps some additional markers could help. Example, when the Anvil stable kids come out in the morning their package has them seek Ernest. He's already busy raking at his marker, but will stop and speak to each of the kids as they arrive (quite realistic). He then goes back to raking and they just stand there with Ernest raking their toes. On package change they start their play animations (except the older girl who goes off to ride her pony), but the animations are right at that same Ernest rake marker, so they clip through his raking body. Perhaps a new marker back beside and behind the stable close to where Hasathil and Enilroth have their little tete a tete later in the day with a travel to get them there after talking to Ernest would help. I find quite a few of the kids don't execute their eat packages at all when they get home (and they generally arrive well before the hour is up). I don't think it is always related to that running out of food situation I brought up in my PM. I've seen it most frequently with the noon eat packages ... they'll get home, go through the door and just stand there until the next package. Maybe allow some time before the eat package after the travel package, and make the travel package target a marker inside the house that gets them away from the door (i.e. travel at noon, eat at 1pm). The concern I brought up about the distance away from the stable that the pony ride takes may be a moot point. When following the stable child from Leyawiin (Athriskaar I believe) in his morning package after leaving the building he walked right by a mud crab and neither reacted to one another. Made me think you'd used the Packdonkey solution on them (faction that none of the bad guys attack). Comments here make me think that maybe that's not the case. I don't think it was an effect from NPCs Yield Refined because once I got close to the mud crab it reacted. Could be just a glitch, as I've not seen anything similar since (but I've purposely avoided my usual tricks like dragging a bandit close to the gates and things like that). As promised here's my load order, BOSS sorted plus User Rules where needed: Active Mod Files: [xml] 00 Oblivion.esm 01 EnhancedWeather.esm [Version 1.4.4] 02 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.73] 03 Kvatch Rebuilt.esm 04 Race Repository.esm 05 Minotaur Race.esm 06 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.5.1] ++ UOPS Additional Changes.esp ++ Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp 07 DLCShiveringIsles.esp 08 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.5.5] ++ USIPS Additional Changes.esp ++ VCI Shivering Start CC.esp 09 EnhancedWeather.esp [Version 1.4.4] 0A Idle Dialogue.esp [Version 1.3] 0B 1em_GiveAGift.esp [Version 1.2] 0C Torch Hotkey.esp 0D DialogTweaks.esp [Version 1.0] 0E Female Lich.esp 0F Personality Idles - Modified version.esp [Version 1.4] 10 See You Sleep DLL.esp 11 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.4.3] 12 Lava Does Fire Damage.esp 13 Hotkey Pro.esp [Version 1.3] 14 FovZoom.esp 15 DLCHorseArmor.esp 16 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8] 17 SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp [Version 1.11] 18 DLCOrrery.esp 19 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5] 1A SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp [Version 1.11] 1B DLCVileLair.esp 1C DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.10] ++ SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp [Version 1.21] 1D See You Sleep DLL - DLCVileLair.esp 1E DLCMehrunesRazor.esp 1F DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6] 20 SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp [Version 1.30] 21 DLCSpellTomes.esp ++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1] ** EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer.esp ++ BladeofWoeReplacer9Tongues.esp 22 KnightsOfTheThornArmor.esp 23 RealSwords - Argonian LO-NPC.esp 24 RealSwords - Bosmer LO-NPC.esp 25 RealSwords - Breton LO-NPC.esp 26 RealSwords - Dunmer LO-NPC.esp 27 RealSwords - Khajiit LO-NPC v1.3.esp 28 RealSwords - Nord LO-NPC SI.esp 29 RealSwords - Orc LO-NPC v1.0.esp 2A RealSwords - Redguard LO-NPC.esp 2B Goblin Realswords+Tribal Shields.esp 2C DLCThievesDen.esp 2D DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.12] 2E DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.12] 2F SM Plugin Refurbish - ThievesDen.esp [Version 1.30] 30 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.73] 31 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63] ++ Cobl Tweaks - SI.esp 32 Alluring Potion Bottles v3.esp 33 Alluring Wine Bottles.esp 34 kuerteeWanderingEncounters.esp 35 AK_corpses_collector.esp 36 AleswellHomeQuest.esp 37 AleswellCOBLaddon.esp ++ Cheydinhal Land Texture Fix.esp [Version 2.0] 38 Whispered Warning.esp 39 Better Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary.esp [Version 3.22] 3A Better Abandoned House.esp [Version 2.0] 3B BDBS - Whispered Warning Patch.esp [Version 3.22] 3C BrotherhoodRenewed.esp [Version 1.1.2] 3D EMBridgeHouse.esp 3E EMBridgeHouseCOBLaddon.esp 3F EMLeyawiinhouse.esp 40 EMLeyawiinhouseCOBLaddon.esp 41 EM_RedRoseManor.esp [Version 2.0] 42 EMRedRoseAddonCOBL.esp 43 EM_Packdonkeys.esp [Version 2.1] 44 FishermansCottage.esp [Version 2.3] 45 FishermansCOBLaddon.esp 46 GwedenBrothel.esp 47 GwedenExpansion.esp ++ Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp 48 RoxeyCottage.esp [Version 2.3] 49 RoxeyCottageCOBLaddon.esp 4A RumpleMod.esp 4B RumpleModSI.esp 4C Temple District Repaired.esp 4D TinyHouse.esp 4E COBLaddonTinyHouse.esp 4F WaterlilyCottage1.esp [Version 1.1] 50 WaterlilyCottageCOBLaddon.esp 51 EM_Cheydinhalhouse1.esp 52 COBL_EMCheydinhalSwanCottage.esp 53 Panther River Smuggler's Shack.esp 54 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp 55 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9] 56 SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp [Version 1.30] 57 FalkreathGS_RM.esp 58 DLCFrostcrag.esp 59 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9] 5A SM Plugin Refurbish - Frostcrag.esp [Version 1.2] 5B BrumaGuildReconstructed.esp [Version 1.0.1] 5C Knights.esp 5D Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1.5] ** EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp ++ SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp [Version 1.06] 5E M.O.E. - Main Quest Delayer.esp [Version 3] 5F Faregyl.esp [Version 2.0.11] 60 Feldscar.esp [Version 1.0.13] 61 Gottshaw Village.esp [Version 1.0.1] 62 Vergayun.esp [Version 2.0.2] 63 Sutch Village.esp [Version 1.0.4] 64 HUD Status Bars.esp [Version 5.3.2] 65 EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp ++ ExpandedGreetings.esp 66 hhVariedMages.esp 67 Safe Traveling NPC.esp 68 SMYB Love Female Only.esp 69 upperGothicClutter.esp 6A RealisticFatigue.esp 6B Basic Primary Needs.esp [Version 6.3] 6C Basic Physical Activities.esp [Version 1.3] 6D SigilStoneSelector.esp 6E kuerteeMagickaBasedEnchantmentLimits.esp 6F StolenItemOwnership.esp 70 Glowing Respawning Varla & Welkynd Stones 14-28 Days.esp 71 SM Combat Hide.esp [Version 1.2] 72 Enhanced Grabbing.esp [Version 0.5] 73 kuerteeNPCsYield.esp 74 Unequip Broken Armor.esp [Version 2.8.2] 75 DS Companion Wardrobe Manager.esp [Version 0.9] ++ Female Xivilai.esp 76 CoO1.esp 77 Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp [Version 2.0] 78 tbskGuardsFeatures.esp ++ -No-_persistant_enchantment_glow_fix-1843.esp 79 kuerteeDetectLifeEffect.esp 7A kuerteeNightEyeShader.esp ++ Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.53] 7B Elz - No Floating Weapon.esp 7C MyAdditionalNPCs.esp 7D MyTweaks.esp 7E Bashed Patch, 0.esp [/xml] OBSE plugins Blockhead.dll EnhancedGrass.dll FractionalMagicDamage.dll MenuQue.dll OBSE_Kyoma_MenuQue.dll SwitchNightEyeShaders.dll Elys_USV.dll obse_training_fix.dll Trifle.dll I also have a number of ESP-less replacer mods, I can list them if you want (main ones possibly affecting this project are Roberts Male meshes and textures with OCO v2 texture compatibility patch and HGEC with OCO v2 texture compatibility patch, NoMaaM animation replacer and Idle Stagger animation replacer). In general I haven't seen any issue with the kids bunching up unreasonably and they mostly display a good variety of animations at any given time (but as has been pointed out it's natural for a bunch of kids to do the same thing at once). It would be nice if they'd start their animation a bit farther away from the player character as you approach, but I think that's probably more a game limitation. Haven't tried picking any fights with any kids yet and other than a few sweetcakes my guy's been too poor to buy presents to hand out. - Edit - Forgot to mention ... one of the changes I have in my MyTweaks.esp is a change to the cell reset time. I've changed it to 15 days, which will affect that food situation I talked about.
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Post by Emma on Jan 8, 2015 9:34:08 GMT
Hi Striker I'm so glad that you decided to register here, too, it will make mutual feedback so much faster when it all happens in one place. I was writing on a PM-reply to you yesterday, but it got so late over here that I had to quit. Some quick notes from it: Yes, I'm pretty sure this is because I haven't cleaned everything with TES4Edit yet, and I did happen to touch Tamika so that her actorID now appears with a * next to it. That seems to be the likely reason. I'm so glad that the rest of the children are unaffected by Oblivion Character Overhaul; as I told you, I put their head meshes in a separate folder in order to prevent this. The pregnant robes are, as you say, added through a script. As for children's food supply, they are also given new food through a script, so they shouldn't ever run out of it. I think that the reason why they dont always eat at home is that their packages doesn't auto-switch fast enough to allow them to do so. (I'm using only a few packages to make kids go home for lunch and supper; as I'm using "near editor location" to make them go to the place where they belong, I can't add in conditions like GetDistance "rightobject" >= 500 to make these packages end. I haven't been so concerned over it; in reality, you don't follow children home to see if they eat or not, it's now when we are testing that we do this . I don't think anyone has seen the kids that are eating outdoors skipping their meals (at least I dont' think so). Of course I can also do like you suggest and add a -1 of a food item to them. I'm not sure why I did it through script - as I said, this mod has been on my harddrive for many years, I don't recall the reason for some of the decisions I made at that time. I think the animations won't play if the player is in a different cell from the children, and in this area, as you say , you can see very far. they'll start moving as the player approaches. I'll think on solutions for this. With Ernest, it was a mistake I made in the list of ai-packages for the stable kids; with so many kids and so many packages, it's easy to make mistakes, which makes it so invaluable that there now are several people keeping an eye on the kids' behaviour. It must have been that the door was locked... although he does have a key! I've looked at every bed in every house to ensure that they don't have an ownership that would prevent the children to sleep in them. In these cases, or when there are not enough beds, I have added sleeprolls for them that will be disabled during daytime. I don't have the CS open now, but I'm pretty sure that the 11emKIDAnvFLWAstia7x and AnvilBreakfastCountArms8x2 are higher in the list than the wander one. As you see, these last until 10 AM, whereas the AnvilStableWander lasts until 12, so at 10 AM the stable wander has the highest priority. However, I think he also has another package that makes him run to the swings at 11 am three days a week. These days he will hardly have time to visit the stables. the rain condition is the same as for her mother, who also paints; i.e. Leviesa is only supposed to paint together with her mom. I haven't put any rain condition on reading packages. From start, I did, but this meant that Leyawiin children would be very inactive... Of course I could make separate packages for them and let the rest avoid reading when it rains. This surprises me, as the plain sit packages normally also has the effect that they warp the actor. We have even used this "feature" to "unstick" Vilja once a day when she is wandering at home. You are refering to a sit package when the actor isn't eating, arent you? Thank you! I'll change this. I'll have to reply to your newer post here later; it's working hours for me now, and I have to finish a few things before lunch.
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Post by Sniffles on Jan 8, 2015 9:50:59 GMT
In the midst of all this technical fancy stuff I can't understand. A mountain lion appeared to be attacking a kid at the stable outside Anvil. Not sure what was going on. Horses were involved too. Anyway I had a clear shot but the kid moved into the way at just the wrong time. He went through the wall of the stable, through the parapet of the wall of the city and last seen was heading towards the south pacific. There, your useless play testing for the month.
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Post by Emma on Jan 8, 2015 10:05:26 GMT
{{I then disarmed myself and hit Felinus Inventius with my fists. I'm not sure how many times I hit im at first but it was probably twice. I saw the message "Your attack has no effect". However Felinus immediately attacked me with a dagger and fire. Joey was passing and joined in and that started a fight between Joey and Vilja. Two passing NPCs then joined in on my side. No-one appeared to be gaining an advantage.}} Nice! Now I got it! I was always hitting them with my fists too!! =D If sparring is a problem, leave it a alone. ;-) Well, in my game, the kids will instantly teleport also if I use my fists! I'm totally unable to reproduce that they don't move away, regardless of what I do. In my game, it works flawlessly, but for some reason this is not valid in every game. I have been able to cause a mayhem, though, by attacking Ernest at the anvil stables with my fists. The guard arrived, and the children decided to help me against the guard, and then they got mad at their father and killed him. I REALLY need to look into this! But I think I continue with the packages for the Imperial City children first. Sparring isn't a "problem", but the more statics I add to the game world, and the more packages I'm using that refers to statics I have added, the more complicated it would be to make a patch for Open cities. (I try to fully avoid adding statics to the Tamriel worldspace). Also, sparring will not look as nice as it did in Morrowind.
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Post by Emma on Jan 8, 2015 10:10:28 GMT
Went to Bruma to watch the children there. You probably know all about the "kid in the cobblestones" effect, where Geniini skips along and sinks into the street. She's the only one I saw do that -- is it to do with the elevation of the ground she's walking on? However, I must compliment you on the cartwheel animations (which I observed in Chorrol as well)! You never see a kid in Skyrim do that! I'll look at the children in some other places over the next couple days. Yes, the custom animations (by Uumpa; making such animations are way above my skills) and some vanilla animations as well have no collision so the actor can be wading in concrete, as npcs in Oblivion are totally unaware of changes of z-level (height). (This is also why Vilja and other Oblivion companions think that if she is standing on a balcony and an enemy is standing below her, she should absolutely use a sword on him and not arrows). We can not fully avoid that kids sometimes do like the altmer girl does, but we can look for kids that do this repeatedly. Then I can change their packages to force them to do their animations at other spots, or change which animations they are using. So, see if the altmer girl does like this day after day or if it was just a one-time incident. The kids here will indeed do many things that Skyrim children don't do. And if you pay a visit to for instance the Gilded Carafe in Market District or the Renoit bookshop in Chorrol, you will find something that Skyrim also doesn't have...
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 8, 2015 14:13:50 GMT
Elven Gardens:
I didn't see any children playing in this area, they appeared to only live here and spend the day elsewhere, so I only saw the kids walking or running between their houses and the district's doors.
Helene Metric seems to go home later than most. I met her twice on successive evenings on her way home and followed her to her door. She was wearing her bow and quiver on her back. The first time I saw her she arrived home at around 8.15pm but on the second evening it was nearer 8.45pm.
I found the Pierrane kids standing at the door of their house at mid-day. They were unable to enter. They stood there throughout the afternoon as well and well into the evening. The door was locked. They weren't stuck in any animation and they responded normally when I spoke to them. At 10.15pm their father Roderick Pierrane came home. However the kids couldn't follow him in straight away. It was around maybe another 25 minutes of game time before they were able to enter. As the door was still unlocked at that time I went inside. I saw Helene Pierrane sleeping on a sleeping mat on the floor against a wall in the main room, hugging her panda. I did not see Therese. The upstairs room was locked and by that time Vilja and I were being asked to leave, so we did.
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Post by firespark on Jan 8, 2015 15:23:11 GMT
After you attack the children.. some fight back ..some don't.. also the guards will not react to the crime? is this working as intended? Really impressed with the module so far. The animations are awesome. It really brings a part of the world alive which was missing.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 8, 2015 15:44:01 GMT
After you attack the children.. some fight back ..some don't.. also the guards will not react to the crime? is this working as intended? Really impressed with the module so far. The animations are awesome. It really brings a part of the world alive which was missing. When I tested hitting the children, the guards ignored my attacks with the sword and bow, but when some guards arrived in the middle of the fight that had started when I used my fists, they fought against the kids. [Edit] - P.S. the guards also fought against each other.
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