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Post by marek0712 on Jan 8, 2015 20:13:34 GMT
I just remembered that there is a kid in the mod Thieves Arsenal. I recall that the boy was impossible to be hit. However, I've just tested it and unfortunately, the boy is impossible even to be talked to. I didn't test having a companion fight him. Things today were pretty normal. I spent most time in Anvil. I haven't found the Lasseman dude yet. I need to double-check the kids list (I copied only the names). I'm going to buy my ticket tomorrow because I want to take the bus this Saturday. I'm off until I'm back now. EDIT: Speaking of fighting kids, Clesa's children killed me another day.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 8, 2015 20:16:59 GMT
Have a good time, Marek.
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 8, 2015 21:06:49 GMT
As an addendum to yesterday's report ... In Leyawiin the two young girls that play near the swing set missed going home on their 6 pm run home package. They stood around doing the not moving or talking thing until 9 pm, when your "Get your behind home!" package sent them on their way home (so at least it is reliable). Undecided on which city I should visit next ... need to make a checklist.
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 8, 2015 21:16:42 GMT
hi i'm a new tester. Andytor in Chorrol seems to be sitting on the benches near the large tree but seems to be abit floating above it. I got angry because i hate bugs.. and i got killed on my level 1 character.. they seem to be pretty tough ..(couldnt hit them either:) A similar situation affects sleeping children ... you'll find them floating above their normal sleeping level.
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 8, 2015 23:04:01 GMT
Preliminary report on the Gottshaw Inn kids: I'm using Arthmoor's Gottshaw Village Expansion but didn't see any problems created between the two mods. When outside Ihwan and Merwelen both navigated using the Expansion's edited pathgrid and interacted with the new residents. Had a situation where both started their afternoon play animation while side by side, so they were clipping through each other, but all other play packages went well with no animation clipping issues. I tried dragging the bandit from up the hill towards Kvatch down while both were outside in their play animation. First attempt a few of the locals ganged up on him and the bandit gave up (NPCs Yield Refined behavior). Both kids just continued their play animation (the bandit didn't make it past the bottom of the hill to the Inn and they wer up close to the Inn's door). The second attempt I let the bandit whack me a couple of times (once they've draw blood they tend to be a bit more persistent). Ihwan was the closest NPC and he went into combat mode, fists a flying. Merwelen also entered combat mode but the bandit gave up as he was outnumbered by Ihran and the couple of townsfolk who had joined in. It's a shame there wasn't a way to make the kids run for shelter (the Inn door was right there within steps) rather than fight ... more realistic. The first night both kids used their sleeping cots no issues. The second night somebody (OK ... it was me) had unlocked the two extra room's doors, and as those beds aren't owned Merwelen slept in a bed. The only thing I noticed is that same body type mismatch on Merwelen's legs (her skirt must not be HGEC compatible). All eating packages went as they should and they even shared a bench and read together after the big bandit excitement. Their outside packages could be a bit lonely without Arthmoor's additions, and they wouldn't have any allies in a fight then. While indoors they interacted with the Legion patrol who spends all his time near Foroch when the townsfolk were still outside.
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 8, 2015 23:32:21 GMT
Talos Plaza: I moved on here from the Elven Gardens. There were a lot of children playing in this district, particularly in the centre around the statue. There were no cases of kids clipping with structures or raised pavements in the centre area around the statue. However in the morning Grisha Gro-marad was playing by running round in a clockwise circle next to the road up to the door to the Palace district and was clipping right through the wall there. This was the only clipping of any kind I saw in this district even though there were a lot of children playing there. Could this be avoided if Grisha was moved into the centre of the roadway? In the afternoon she played elsewhere and didn’t clip into anything. I know you have already noted that Marek has mentioned that as an orc girl she should be "Grisha gra-marad". Along with several other kids I saw the Pierrane kids playing near the statue and Helene Metric was nearby. At mid-day the Pierrane girls left separately to go to their home in the Elven Gardens District. Helene (Pierrane) left first and I followed her. This time neither girl had any problem entering their home. In the evening Helene was first to leave for home again. I went ahead to the house and noticed that the door was unlocked. I went inside and saw that this time their father was already home. I then went outside to wait for the kids and when they arrived they both entered the house without any problems. This is a screenshot of Grisha Gro-marad clipping right through the wall:
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Post by Emma on Jan 9, 2015 0:41:09 GMT
Sorry I've been tardy in reporting here Emma ... I'll continue with progress since my Nexus PM report. I think I've found part of the problem with some of the kids sleeping packages. I'll use Tun Maarus in Leyawiin as an example but I think it could affect others as well. The two beds available for both Tun Zeuus and Tun Maarus have two different ownerships one belongs to Tun Zeuus and one belongs to Leyawwin Dividing Line faction. Both Tuns belong to the Leyawiin Dividing Line faction but this allows Tun Zeuus to use either bed. If he gets to the Leyawiin Divided Line faction bed before Tun Maarus then Tun Maarus can't use the other bed, as it belongs exclusively to Tun Zeeus. Bradus kids and the mother's bed is a similar situation, and one must bunk in with the mom but can't. Won't necessarily be obvious to anyone but thieves and sneaky beta tester types though. I don't think it is a matter of ownership as I have been checking this carefully. Whereever tehre is an ownership problem with the beds, I have added sleeping rolls instead. It could however be problems with the pathgrid, or like described with locked rooms. It would be nice if I could sort this out, but for those kids that live with their parents, only thief characters are likely to enter the house during night when the kids are supposed to be sleeping and the doors are locked. I'll keep an eye on the places where you who aer posting here will mention that kids are not sleeping properly, and then, if I can't figure out anything else, I'll add sleepingrolls for them. It's great that you report about this You are probably right about the anvil girl who is painting; she and a girl in Cheydinhal are using a special dress (that isn't really inlore) where I haven't thought about changing the skin parts. With the girl at the Anvil stable and the other girls with the same dress, I'm using "fake skin" in order to prevent that they have nipples on their legs and such things (I've actually never seen that on the painter girl, though!! In my game she looks OK in spite of that I'm using HGEC). The downside with fakeskin is that it will never look quite natural. I was quite contented with the looks of the skin on little Joley's dress. I'll have to take another look at the hands. I think that if anything, Loviesa's dress is based on vanilla game and not on HGEC. For the Anvil stables, I found a mistake in the ai-package, so it should be better in the next version I hope. I agree that some of the packages on some of the children probably will have to be altered to take place at specific markers, but when I do this, it will look more rigid, so it will have to be a balance between where this is really needed and where the clipping is so rare that it can be considered OK. It's one of the most important thing to get tested; I have just changed the Anvil boy Marcus because of how he was skipping leg into the bench static when his sister was reading, and I'll continue to monitor reports on repeated oddities in this. I think I wrote a rather long reply on this in my previous post that was answering your PM. If they travel at noon and eat at 1 PM, they won't be out playing again until at 2 PM (as Oblivion only counts the exact hours, unlike Skyrim), and then I'll still have to send them home when it's dark. I think that would be a greater loss than if they dont have time to eat when they get home for lunch (as it is unlikely that the player will follow them indoors to watch them eat). I have an idea on how to sort this out, although I'm uncertain how well it will work with spawning enemies that don't belong in any factions. At any rate, I have something I will try, it involves faction settings and certain spells, and should hopefully take care also of city mayhems involving the kids. It's a bit complicated to explain, though, so I leave that for right now; I can explain it easier once I get it working (if I get it working) yes, I think the animations won't start when the player isn't in the same cell. If you look at vanilla npcs it's pretty much the same. However, if you have been in one cell and move on to another, you can stll see the kids in the "old" cell play. So it is situations like with the Anvil swings that might be hard to solve. Well, the kids should always be supplied with food through their scripts, and now I also changed so that they have -1 of an ingredient (I can't recall why I didn't do this before, I probably had a reason for it, but I started out on this mod already in early 2010).
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 9, 2015 2:02:00 GMT
Had a look at one of my old ESPs that had NPCs reading in Chorrol.
I got them to the bench under the Great Oak with a travel package, must complete duration one hour, location the bench under the Great Oak selected from the render window if I recall correctly. That was followed with their two hour read package (total three hours for the two packages). I found that if they weren't already sitting on the bench when their reading package triggered they'd warp to the bench (and because of that one hour minimum per package thing there was no way to shorten the time spent just sitting).
On a side note, this did give them plenty of time to get to the bench (they were only coming from Arbor Watch though) and while sitting waiting for their next package they would interact with NPCs passing by.
- Edit - Concerning Loviesa ... it did look like vanilla textures on HGEC (OCO v2 installs vanilla textures of it's own by default that aren't removed if you then install it's HGEC texture compatibility patch, and Nuska's vanilla textures have a large grey border around the skin that makes them rather distinctive). Was a considerably more embarassing part that Loviesa had displayed on her leg, visible when sitting down.
- Edit 2 - The ownership issue is more centered around Tun Zeuus. He can sleep in either bed, and when he sleeps in the bed you've added Tun Maarus can't sleep in the original bed because it belongs to Tun Zeuus alone (not a faction owned bed).
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 9, 2015 11:10:35 GMT
I've now visited the Temple, Armoretum and Arena Districts. The only child seen was Grisha, walking to and from her house in the Temple District and the door to the Talos District. Are there plans for having some kids play in the Arboretum District? I imagine it would be a good place for kids to play. I also went back to Anvil and took another look at Loviesa. She does have a distinct mark on the front of her right leg which I hadn't noticed before. [Edit - I also noticed some clipping of her legs into the front of her skirt when she sat in a chair in the inn]. Apart from that, I thought she looked ok. There's a slight neck seam, but she isn't the only NPC displaying that. I'm using HGEC. Vilja keeps nagging me about wanting to visit the Waterfront so I guess we will be going there next. Edit 2 - I've been back to Anvil again and taken a look at Joline at the stables. She was playing outside in the sun so the view was clear. There is something distinctly odd here; her arms and legs are dark-skinned while her face is light-skinned. Incidentally, personally I don't see a lot wrong with Joline's dress. The shade of yellow is bright in direct sun but I don't think it looks bad. Perhaps tone it down a little if that's not difficult, or even change the yellow for something that doesn't catch the sun quite as strongly? Edit 3 - Here's a screenshot of Joline in an attempt to illustrate two things. First the difference in skin colouring between the head and arms/legs, and second (maybe not so obvious in this shot) that when I went back again to take this shot she was playing on the front steps, but instead of hopping up and down actually on the steps, she was floating above the lowest steps. P.P.S. Here's another shot I took of Joline, with Vilja:
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 9, 2015 21:49:58 GMT
I've had a more careful look at the OCO v2 textures and it is almost certainly a case of HGEC textures applied to the skin portions of a non-HGEC compatible mesh. I've attached a shot showing the grey part of Nuska's HGEC compatability patch textures mapping onto Loviesa's arms, legs, shoulders etc. I don't have the face problem with Joline that Seyheb is getting ... I've attached a couple of shots of her for comparison and also to show the "hoop dress" effect when sitting (if taken from standing in front of her the "view" is quite different, not sure if you want that). I'm not so much bothered by that style dress colour wise, it's more how much it differs from the vanilla style clothes (and outside of Loviesa's I find they all blend in very well where they aren't just resized vanilla ... Loviesa's is just a bit modern for my eye).
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Post by Emma on Jan 9, 2015 23:30:01 GMT
How strange, the kids don't look the same in my game. Joline looks like on your screenshots, Striker, but Loviesa is a BLONDE girl and has always been. I am using normal HGEC and haven't seen the grey-problem that is displayed in your picture. If her dress is the only one that is causing problems, i can of course simply replace it, it's only she and one more girl who uses it. But, what animation replacer are you using that affects the kids, Striker? Little Joline is sitting like an adult. I have ran into another MASSIVE problem. The kids have stopped greeting me! I just double-checked with Wolf, so I know that the problem shouldn't be in the esp that you are using, but if I can't find the reason, I might have to revert to the versino you are using and re-do all the work again. Can you confirm that the kids do greet you in your game?
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 9, 2015 23:34:44 GMT
Here's two pictures of Loviesa as seen in my game, except the dark inn interior and very bad weather outside meant that I had to increase the brightness and contrast. The first is her sitting in the inn at breakfast. You can see the mark on her right leg and also how her leg clips through her skirt as she swings her legs. [picture removed] The second is of her leaving the inn. You can see I don't have the problems Striker has. (P.S. Striker, we're asked to use image hosts such as Photobucket and Imgur for our pictures) P.S. the children are still greeting me.
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Post by Striker879 on Jan 9, 2015 23:58:57 GMT
The Wawnet kids have been greeting and talking to me (that's been my latest spot). My ESP-less animation replacers are NoMaaM (doesn't touch sitting animations at all), Idle Stagger (doesn't touch sitting), BBB While Idle (only seductiveidleb.kf installed), BBB MangaBody Animations (seductiveidlea.kf and the two talk_seductiveidles as well as most all of the bed and bedroll idles like bed_nightmare.kf, bed_stirinsleep01 & 02, bedrollentry_crawl.kf, side etc). I have a single ESP that touches animations (Personality Idles Modified Version NPCs and Companions) which I've further tweaked myself. All of it's animations are in a separate folder (Meshes\characters\_male\idleanims\personality) and are only applied according to the conditions set up in the ESP. The conditions use class if I recall correctly, but I'll need to check it to confirm. I do believe the "hoop dress" problem is there with your sitting animation as well though ... I'll look to confirm that as well next time I'm around one of the girls wearing that mesh. If I recall correctly Loviesa was the same hair colour with CoO1.esp below Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp (I have it loading before OCO right now). I'll swap them back and confirm that as well. Her dress isn't the only one though (Nerilla at Wawnet has the same grey texture showing problem, and that no doubt is OCO v2 related as Nuska's HGEC textures are the only ones I've ever seen using grey in the normally non-used areas of the texture). I'll file my full Wawnet report after I've done a bit more investigating causes for what I've seen. - Edit - I'm a bit of an online dinosaur with things like that Seyheb, but I'll set up accounts if somebody shoots me a link or two on where is best. - Edit 2 - Nerilla's texture problem
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Post by Seyheb on Jan 10, 2015 0:28:11 GMT
Here's a picture I've just taken of Jolene sitting at home. You can see she is sitting normally as the kids do and swinging her legs. She is also displaying the dress hoop effect. She greeted me when I entered the house. [edit - Striker, the two most popular hosts we use are www.photobucket.com and www.imgur.com. If you need any info on using them I'll PM you a "How To" use Photobucket to post images here. Collin is the expert on Imgur and I'm sure he would let you have similar info on using Imgur.]
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Post by Emma on Jan 10, 2015 0:29:16 GMT
Phew... I located the problem and it's now cured, the kids now greet me again.
However, the cause of the problem also ruined what I thought would be an excellent solution to children and fighting.
Part of it is covered now, but for the rest I'm back at square 1.
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