Typos in Vilja mod

[wotan]

I just found this minor typo in Vilja's random chatter as we got back to Whiterun.

Vilja: Now that we are here, how about buying me a staff that can throw fire balls? I'm sure it would be very useful.

Fireballs is one word. If I stumble across any more I'll post them in this topic.

[Emma]

Most of "typos" in the Vilja mod is most likely related to that the dialog only "accepts"149 characters. And chatter entries can not be in more than one part. So, there have been several cases where I have deliberated excluded spaces between sentences (writing: last word.Next word instead of last word. Next word. Ord Isnt it instead of Isn't it). These are deliberate typos where I found it was a larger benefit to be able to use a chatter entry instead of being unable to use it.

[wotan]

Ah. Thanks for the explanation. I had no idea the dialogue entries had such severe limits.

[Emma]

Of course the typo you wrote in your first post is a very relevant typo - I'm surely happy for any posts with these, and I'll attend to it .

I just wanted to explain why certain typos might be a design choice to overcome limits rather than a "real" typo.

[wotan]

Vilja: Keep quiet, Lydia! You're making more noise than a flock of Mammoths.

Should say: Keep quiet, Lydia! You're making more noise than a herd of mammoths.

(I just loved it when I heard her say that line while we were sneaking in Honorhall )

[loriel]

There doesn't appear to be an official collective noun for mammoths, though I would agree that "herd" looks like one of the better options.

For elephants, as well as herd apparently "parade" and "memory" are officially accepted, and this might be appropriate for mammoths.

However, if they are woolly mammoths I think "flock" could be regarded as appropriate...

Loriel

[Deleted]

Sorry wotan but you are incorrect. Emma used the word "flock" properly. Since English is not your first language I will go into further detail so that you may have a complete understanding.

A "Herd" can be used for "cattle" or any group of wild animals. Although many groups of animals have their own term/word that describes their specific assemblage.

Here's where you made your misunderstanding wotan;

Flock is almost always used specifically for birds because "flocking" is an "adverb" (an action word). A flock is a group of birds conducting flocking behavior in flight, or while foraging. Birds are flocking when you see a large group flying together and making sudden turns as a group in a type of circular back and forth direction.

However with that being said; a flock of any mammal is correct grammar in English. The words "herd" and "flock" are considered synonyms with drove, pack, gang and brood being acceptable as well.

The following nouns (person, place or thing) denote a number of animals, birds, or fish considered collectively, and some have human connotations:

Flock is applied to a congregation of animals of one kind, especially sheep or goats herded by people, and to any congregation of wild or domesticated birds, especially when on the ground. It is also applicable to people who form the membership of a church or to people under someone's care or supervision.

Herd is used of a number of animals, especially cattle, herded by people; or of wild animals such as antelope, elephants, and zebras; or of whales and seals. Applied to people, it is used disparagingly of a crowd or of the masses and suggests the gregarious aspect of crowd psychology.

Drove is used of a herd or flock, as of cattle or geese, that is being moved or driven from one place to another; less often it refers to a crowd of people in movement.

Pack is applicable to any body of animals, especially wolves, or of birds, especially grouse, and to a body of hounds trained to hunt as a unit. It also refers disparagingly to a band or group of persons.

Gang refers to a herd, especially of buffalo or elk; to a pack of wolves or wild dogs; or to various associations of persons, especially when engaged in violent or criminal pursuits.

Brood is applicable to offspring that are still under the care of a mother, especially the offspring of domestic or game birds or, less formally, of people. ·

The following related terms are used as indicated:

bevy, a company of roe deer, larks, or quail;

cast, the number of hawks or falcons cast off at one time, usually a pair;

cete, a company of badgers;

covert, a flock of coots;

covey, a family of grouse, partridges, or other game birds;

drift, a drove or herd, especially of hogs;

exaltation, a flight of larks;

fall, a family of woodcock in flight;

flight, a flock of birds in flight;

gaggle, a flock of geese;

gam, a school of whales, or a social congregation of whalers, especially at sea;

kennel, a number of hounds or dogs housed in one place or under the same ownership;

kindle, a brood or litter, especially of kittens;

litter, the total number of offspring produced at a single birth by a multiparous mammal; murder, a flock of crows;

muster, a flock of peacocks; nide, a brood of pheasants; pod, a small herd of seals or whales;

pride, a company of lions;

rout, a company of people or animals in movement, especially knights or wolves;

school, a congregation of fish, or aquatic mammals such as dolphins or porpoises;

shrewdness, a company of apes;

skein, a flight of wildfowl, especially geese;

skulk, a congregation of vermin, especially foxes, or of thieves;

sloth, a company of bears;

sord, a flight of mallards;

sounder, a herd of wild boar;

stable, a number of horses housed in one place or under the same ownership;

swarm, a colony of insects, such as ants, bees, or wasps, especially when migrating to a new nest or hive;

troop, a number of animals, birds, or people, especially when on the move;

warren, the inhabitants, such as rabbits, of a warren;

watch, a flock of nightingales;

wisp, a flock of birds, especially of snipe

[wotan]

My point was that there is a specific word for a flock of elephants or in this case mammoths - that's a herd. It isn't really wrong to use the term flock, but using herd gives a more 'educated' impression. I felt it would be natural for a Nord to use the specific term, as these animals are commonplace in the cold north.

Also you left out pack in your list. Canine animals may fall under pack - pack of dogs, pack of wolves etc.

[Deleted]

Sorry but you are way off base here wotan and 100% in the wrong. You specifically accused Emma of a grammatical error where there was none. Even loriel noticed your error. That is two people trying to help you realize your mistake.

Flock and herd are interchangeable. They are both "Educated" ways of describing an assemblage of animals. They mean the same thing. They are synonyms. The word "herd" is used for any group of animals and so is the word flock used to describe ANY group of animals. All you have to do wotan is look up the word in a dictionary.www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brilliant?ref=dictionary&word=flock#

An assemblage of Elephants can be called a "Parade" or a "Memory" but herd, flock, drove, pack, gang and brood are very acceptable as well. This is easily proven by looking up the words in a Thesaurus. thesaurus.com/browse/herd

If you read the list wotan you would have realized that I did not leave out Canine animals (dogs, wolves). It is listed not once but... TWICE!!!

What I did leave out was;

A group of Hippopotamus' are called a crash;

A group of Zebras are called a zeal;

A group of Bacteria are called a colony;

A group of Giraffe are called a tower.

Using the word "Flock" to describe a group of animals is a very "educated" because you are creatively using a synonym that shows off a complete meaning of the word.

It is similar to the word "Brilliant", which means shining brightly; sparkling; glittering; lustrous: but it is also acceptable to use the word to describe mental keenness or alertness; ie. "She gave a brilliant performance." or "She has a brilliant mind."

[wotan]

You're right about I expressed myself completely wrong. I didn't mean to throw accusations - line removed.
The first time I saw it it just stuck out as wrong, but the more I keep hearning it it sounds as natural as herd would in its place.

[loriel]

In many ways I side with Wotan in this discussion - "herd" does sound more natural to me than "flock".

However, it's not something that is clearly right or clearly wrong, so I don't think the effort in changing it would be justified - changing the text in the file (often multiple occurences), re-recording that sentence, re-packaging the files, etc.

Also I do rather like the word-play there: mammoth -> woolly -> sheep -> flock.

It's also been a (mostly) deliberate policy to let a few oddities come into Vilja's dialogue (as far as the Oblivion version was concerned, where I did most of the proofreading) as part of the charm of a non-native speaker of the language.

What I did try to do was to get the spelling right, as I find wrong spellings very distracting (though unfortunately the ES standard seems to be a mixture of English and American, heavily slanted towards American - but that's another discussion...).

I haven't been involved in the Skyrim version of Vilja, so policy there might be different.

Loriel

[winterlove]

I've just noticed that Heneri calls "Blisterwort" "Blisterworth". This seems to be both vocalized and written down (in a list of ingredients). I'm assuming that 200 years ago this is what Heneri knew it as

[Deleted]

May 3, 2013 17:29:19 GMT wotan said:

You're right about I expressed myself completely wrong. I didn't mean to throw accusations - line removed.
The first time I saw it it just stuck out as wrong, but the more I keep hearning it it sounds as natural as herd would in its place.

Hey no worries wotan. It's all good. It's not about who's right or who's wrong here. It's about solving problems eh.

I know you are from Sweden and on top of that you are a writer. That is why I went into such detail for you. I was hoping you would appreciate such a detailed explanation. If it was anybody else on any other forum I would not have put in the effort but I like you so I did.

I completely understand when you say it doesn't sound natural. (Try reading Shakespeare ;D) That is because the word "Flock" is almost always associated with birds. Like the idiom, "Birds of a feather flock together" however most people outside of Ireland and Scotland forget that a group of sheep is also called a flock.

Even the word "Assemblage" that I creatively used to describe many animals closely together is a synonym of the word "Group". Assemblage is usually used to describe, "pieces of something or fragments of a broken object like in archeology.

Cheers ~Pp

[Deleted]

May 3, 2013 18:14:31 GMT loriel said:

What I did try to do was to get the spelling right, as I find wrong spellings very distracting (though unfortunately the ES standard seems to be a mixture of English and American, heavily slanted towards American - but that's another discussion...).

Sorry for the double post here but we must have been posting at the same time loriel.

Being from Canada we are taught Spelling and Grammar following the English standard however unless they are published here the majority of the books and magazines use the American inferiority ;D

[wotan]

Times change and language with them. Words and terms that were used frequently before get replaced by new ones. This can take centuries or it could happen in the passing of a generation.
I always knew the English language has a very wide use of terms for congregations of various animals. I've heard most of them once a long time ago but have forgotten most of them.

Oh. And it should, of course, also be considered that a language decision may have been intentional to fit the character. We all love Vilja and may have slightly different views on her. I feel I tried to push my view too hard in this particular case. ;D