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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 16:38:32 GMT
The Patreon system that I have seen work like this;
A base mod is made. The updates and extensions are only available to patreons. The base mod is usually very plain in colour with no options.
This is what is happening in the Asian modding communities for many years so I am not surprised to hear about this system being tried here. People who are patreons get the better looking race mods.
A new race mod is released but in order to get the better looking face and hair and hi rez skin, all that are for patreons only.
Is that the type of community you want?
I will have no part in that. It is disgusting. Now modding becomes like high school. A fashion show. The rich kids have all the nice clothes every body else can only dream. Again it is divisive and creates a community of haves and have nots.
You can disagree with me. I know these systems because I have been surfing the Asian boards for years. I see what the Asian players do on the Oblivion Boards. I just saw it last week...
A picture was uploaded, people asked what hair the character was using and the answer was; for patreons only.
If that is where this is going then this community goes without me on board. You can disagree with me. I don't care. It is not a big loss if I don't continue.
What we have here is a company who wants to monetize modding. And what I am having difficult in understanding is why? Maybe it is more of a difficulty in accepting it but I can promise all of you that if Bethesda's motives were to, "increase the number of people who use mods" as they previously stated (which I thought was garbage) then this is not they way to go about and do that. It just doesn't make sense.
Real life scenario:
Companion Vilja.
Vilja base model is released.
Updates and fixes for Patreons only.
Patreons only get the different hairstyles.
Patreons only get the voice files compatibility so she can talk to other companios
Patreons only get updates for DLC content
Patreons only get the clothing changing system
After some time passes the public version of Vilja gets updated for use with the DLC
Patreons only get the new features for Vilja in those DLC
and this is what a patreon system is like... Is this what you really want?
PLEASE TELL ME: How does this system increase the amount of people using mods?
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Post by amgepo on May 10, 2015 16:47:51 GMT
The Patreon system that I have seen work like this; A base mod is made. The updates and extensions are only available to patreons. The base mod is usually very plain in colour with no options. This is what is happening in the Asian modding communities for many years so I am not surprised to hear about this system being tried here. People who are patreons get the better looking race mods. A new race mod is released but in order to get the better looking face and hair and hi rez skin, all that are for patreons only. Is that the type of community you want? I will have no part in that. It is disgusting. Now modding becomes like high school. A fashion show. The rich kids have all the nice clothes every body else can only dream. Again it is divisive and creates a community of haves and have nots. You can disagree with me. I know these systems because I have been surfing the Asian boards for years. I see what the Asian players do on the Oblivion Boards. I just saw it last week... A picture was uploaded, people asked what hair the character was using and the answer was; for patreons only. If that is where this is going then this community goes without me on board. You can disagree with me. I don't care. It is not a big loss if I don't continue. What we have here is a company who wants to monetize modding. And what I am having difficult in understanding is why? Maybe it is more of a difficulty in accepting it but I can promise all of you that if Bethesda's motives were to, "increase the number of people who use mods" as they previously stated (which I thought was garbage) then this is not they way to go about and do that. It just doesn't make sense. Real life scenario: Companion Vilja. Vilja base model is released. Updates and fixes for Patreons only. Patreons only get the different hairstyles. Patreons only get the voice files compatibility so she can talk to other companios Patreons only get updates for DLC content Patreons only get the clothing changing system After some time passes the public version of Vilja gets updated for use with the DLC Patreons only get the new features for Vilja in those DLC and this is what a patreon system is like... Is this what you really want? PLEASE TELL ME: How does this system increase the amount of people using mods? If that's the case, we can opose to it. No difference with the paywall system. It's not a matter of which system is worse, there's no need to accept either. It's a matter of definning our leverage and how to use it.
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Post by Emma on May 10, 2015 16:48:33 GMT
Alright, if that is true, then I have completely misunderstood what it was about.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 16:54:43 GMT
I'll try and provide a link to a Fallout New Vegas clothing mod I tried not long ago, the base mod had a lot of clipping and had other bugs (like dirty edits). it also had a hood attached to the clothing/armour.
I tried it, then I sent a PM to the person who told me where to get it and asked them where they got the version without the hood. The answer I received was that instructions were on the download page. So I went to the page and there they were: Something like this;
Please consider becoming patreon. You will receive the different colour models and higher rez version and versions with separated parts. I am also assuming that the dirty edits were removed as well.
Patreon is not a fancy name for donation... it is a completely different system.
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Post by amgepo on May 10, 2015 17:02:19 GMT
I did indeed read something about patreons getting some nicies. It seems at least in some cases, those nicies are just a functional version. The paywall system did brought something similar. the new version of SkyUi was goind to be paid only, with the old one being for free. I think it's more what people make with it than the system itself, but noneless I guess this is what will happen *IF* Beth brings this and *IF* we didn't make them take it out.
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Post by Emma on May 10, 2015 17:04:45 GMT
I was under the impression what was discussed was more like this, which seemed rather harmless to me. Of course, if it's this Asian model that you are talking about that we would have ahead of us, it's a different story.
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Post by amgepo on May 10, 2015 17:09:03 GMT
I was under the impression what was discussed was more like this, which seemed rather harmless to me. Of course, if it's this Asian model that you are talking about that we would have ahead of us, it's a different story. 10,000$/month to hire an assistant?!?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 17:19:57 GMT
I was under the impression what was discussed was more like this, which seemed rather harmless to me. Of course, if it's this Asian model that you are talking about that we would have ahead of us, it's a different story. It is not just in Asia, it is here too now. In my bog where I predicted this would happen 2 months ago (and that is just the latest, I had previously predicted this would happen many time like in 2012 in the forum Modsreloaded) I posted a link to a Patreon style website where my story comes from. Links are in my bog; Transcending the Future
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Post by jet4571 on May 10, 2015 17:21:52 GMT
Patreon is similar to donations except you don't need PayPal and you can set automatic monthly donations so every month a dollar is taken from your checking account or credit card and goes to the Patreon account. Think of it as a patronage, you pay someone to keep making something you enjoy, videos, games, art, whatever. That's where it differs you donate once or monthly to keep the person financially capable of making something and a donation is a thank you.
P!nk P!per, those kinds of patreon's shouldnt be supported and is against the EULA for all Bethesda games. That is selling mods not a patronage. Report them to Bethesda and they will shut them down if they can. You can also report them to Patreon because what they are doing isn't allowed under the Bethesda EULA and Patreon should shut them down. If done properly Patreon isn't evil, it is those that abuse it that's the problem and there are ways of dealing with them.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 17:30:16 GMT
I was under the impression what was discussed was more like this, which seemed rather harmless to me. Of course, if it's this Asian model that you are talking about that we would have ahead of us, it's a different story. Ya sure, I'll become a patron for his videos (not); but Emma, how many people do you think I can afford to do that for? it is not just me. It is the children! This is a game for all ages, all income levels, all nationalities, all cultures, all educations... Of course the modder is going to have to create some sort of benefit for their patrons. they are going to want more patreons... So their patreons get the better stuff. Hey become a patreon today and you'll get the knives for free!!!! And you don't pay shipping if you get a friend to join today I guess I am not a real member of the community. I am just not buying into this. If this is what the kids want to turn this into then I guess I can support them but I will not participate in a exercise that I don't believe in. Skyrim is already off my SSD I am reading the OpenMW page right now. I have also promised KingPix to alpha test parts of his next version of MGSO.
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Post by jet4571 on May 10, 2015 17:38:25 GMT
Oh P!nk P!per, if you upload the mod that had the hood and clipping I can take a look at it and see if I can fix it for you.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 17:40:01 GMT
Patreon is similar to donations except you don't need PayPal and you can set automatic monthly donations so every month a dollar is taken from your checking account or credit card and goes to the Patreon account. Think of it as a patronage, you pay someone to keep making something you enjoy, videos, games, art, whatever. That's where it differs you donate once or monthly to keep the person financially capable of making something and a donation is a thank you. P!nk P!per, those kinds of patreon's shouldnt be supported and is against the EULA for all Bethesda games. That is selling mods not a patronage. Report them to Bethesda and they will shut them down if they can. You can also report them to Patreon because what they are doing isn't allowed under the Bethesda EULA and Patreon should shut them down. If done properly Patreon isn't evil, it is those that abuse it that's the problem and there are ways of dealing with them. LMAO Oh great, now I have to give my Credit Card to try a mod... hahaha Ridiculous. Most people can hardly pay the rent... and now you want to them to risk their credit score and to give their credit card over the nexus??? Where is the security? This is crazy talk. Again it changes nothing... a community of haves and have nots. Omg of course Bethesda wants all our our credit cards LoL oh I be Valve came up with this idea Sry please don't reply. I am done. Stick a fork in me... I do not support any type of monetization. There is nothing anyone can say that will change my mind. So I don't see how I can help this thread any further. What will be will be... I will fight with my mind and my purse. My mind will wander elsewhere with my purse in tow.
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Post by jet4571 on May 10, 2015 17:45:52 GMT
I agree we shouldn't have to pay for mods. That said a Patreon that locks mods behind a paywall should be reported because it is illegal but the system if used the way it is intended is not a bad thing. It is no more bad than having a donation link. Gopher uses it the way it is supposed to be used, those Asians that lock mods away for patrons only are abusing it and needs to be reported, it's that simple really.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:01:44 GMT
Oh P!nk P!per, if you upload the mod that had the hood and clipping I can take a look at it and see if I can fix it for you. I don't have Fallout New Vegas installed right now but thank you for the offer. Very kind of you. I have to saay it was a beautiful light armour... lets see if I can find a pic...
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Post by Seyheb on May 10, 2015 18:21:32 GMT
Hmm, I had come back here with the intention of saying I had nothing against a patreon system in principle, subject to a couple of reservations. However I would not support systems like that described by P!NK P!PER. I didn't look at the sites linked in P!NK's site as the first one wouldn't open beyond the front page and I didn't want to sign into the second one just to read what was written there. Instead I had a look at www.patreon.com where there are links to a number of schemes. I clicked on 'games' and though I havent been through them all, in the first one you seem to be merely paying for the card icons.
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